“Angels & Demons” Path of Illumination Contest Has Begun

EDIT: A big thanks to j15bell for providing photos to assist all of you on your quest! Visit the link HERE. The password is tweleve.

Remember that contest held a few years back by Google when “The Da Vinci Code” was released?  This time around, MSN is hosting a contest for “Angels & Demons” roughly structured in the same way.  The “Path of Illumination Contest” – which just began January 30 – will occur in 2 rounds and a final tie-breaker round leading up to the film’s May release.  Each round will offer a series of 4 challenges released in stages.  Here’s a clear rundown:


The “Path of Illumination Contest” can be found at the official “Angels & Demons” site here: http://www.angelsanddemons.com

It will require you to download Microsoft’s Photosynth as well as sign up for a Windows Live ID (Hotmail and MSN e-mail addresses will work).

*As Round 1 has come to an end, Round 2 begins on March 6.  To remind contestants of the next phase of the contest, Microsoft has sent out the following e-mail:

Congratulations! You are one of only 3,497 contestants from the United States to advance to Round Two of the Angels & Demons Path of Illumination Contest. Don’t turn back now – victory could be within reach!

In Round Two, you must solve four new puzzles. All Round Two puzzles will be available beginning at 10:00 AM PT on March 6, 2009, and must be completed by 9:59 AM PT on March 13, 2009, so mark your calendar!

Unlike Round One, you will have only ONE chance to play each puzzle in Round Two and your score will be automatically submitted for the contest.

Remember, if you have the lowest combined score from Round One and Round Two, you will become the potential country winner, and will receive a trip for two to Rome to attend the premiere of Angels & Demons and more.

Sign in to play at http://angelsanddemons.msn.com

Microsoft respects your privacy. To learn more, please read our online Privacy Statement (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=74170).

Microsoft Corporation
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052

Stuck?  Believe me, after playing through “The Da Vinci Code Contest”, I know from experience that these puzzles do become progressively challenging and players will most definitely need help. 

We are opening the comments board below for open discussion.  Send in any questions or comments you have and feel free to discuss amongst yourselves.

“Angels & Demons” hits theaters May 15, 2009.


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  1. Eugene Wong

    Discuss “The Path of Illumination Contest” here 🙂

  2. Eugene Wong

    If you’re looking for the EARTH symbol in Photosynth, it’s on a chair directly behind where you start off. Just keep rotating and you’ll see it clearly in white text.

  3. Free Games

    wow cool blog – adding it to my favorites thx

  4. R Beal

    I don’t know how many times I looked at the chair without seeing anything. Thanks!

  5. Eugene Wong

    Ugh…did anyone else total over 4000 points for the 2nd puzzle? Yeesh…anyways, who’s dying to know where AIR is???

    From the start point, keep moving to the left end of the room until you face a wooden door directly in front of you. There should be one of those green rotating rings now floating in the picture. Move it around until you see AIR in white text on the left half of the door, around the black door knob area.

  6. Robbie Ates

    How do you acknowledge within the game that you have found the symbol? Do you click your mouse or what?

  7. k. wistrom

    Yes over 4,000 for puzzel 2. it seemed like have of the wind symbols didn’t work while others would blow like crazy.

  8. Rocky

    I must be blind because Ive scanned every chair and can’t find squat…thanks for the heads up though..just not seeing it

  9. Robbie Ates

    Just got the 2nd one also; thanks! It was difficult & over 4000 is right! But, it’s fun!

  10. samabal

    I got 2700 for puzzle 2

  11. Eugene Wong

    Rocky, my belief is that the image only shows up in 1 picture, so even if you see the chair in another picture, the symbol won’t show up (correct me if I’m wrong). Anyways, it’s the chair directly behind you when you start off.

    O and samabal, you just suck. I’m kidding, nice job man 🙂

  12. Mr.Conductor

    After reading these blogs as to where the clues are hidden in the photosynth, i’ve found that when you click on the 3 dotted icon on the navigatioon menu (right above the zoom out button) basically shows you right where the clues are. When hovering over the icon, it says ‘Switch to the next 3D group”

    For instance, in the first puzzle, after clicking on that icon, you see a single picture of the back of a chair, and if you look to the right of the picture, you can see its at a corner table. This basically shows you where the clue should be hidden. Just look in that general area and you should find your clue.

  13. Sakura

    I got 95 for earth combined and 3390 for all 3 levels on air combined… could probs of done better though… I find with the photosynth if you keep an eye out you can often see a bright white haze if your in the right area – which i find that mr.Conducter is right about. Click on the 3 dots and it takes you to the near by area.

  14. Mr.Conductor

    Good job Sakura!! So far I have 156 for Earth, 4355 for Air with a combined total of 4511. I know I could have done better, but oh well. I’m lookin forward for Fire and Water.

  15. Steve

    Good job all. 537 and 4601 for me.

  16. Mike

    Nice job everyone. I’ve got 86 combined on earth, and 1459 combined on the first two of air.

  17. Rachael

    118 and 2220 on my end. Don’t think I’ll be making it to Rome, but it’s still fun playing. Good job everyone!

  18. Jolene

    Could not have found earth without all your comments. Thanks so much for the help! Earth 104, Air 2368. Yup, it’s fun!

  19. Leigh

    Total 5983
    Earth 271
    air 5712

  20. juicy fruit

    I was looking at the door for 2 minutes, there was nothing… then I left that window, came back in around 30 seconds, and then BAM.. there was a huge AIR sitting there smack dab in the middle of the door.!…

    Either that is the meaning behind ‘illumination’ or my cable internet is slow for uploading.

  21. Saul

    Still can’t find those dang icons, but got 120 and 3301, which I guess is alright for a seventeen year old….

  22. Brandon

    Score for me is:
    Earth – 82
    Air – 2248

    My suggestion for getting the best score you can is to keep trying without saving your score. You can try an infinite amount of times until the contest’s end date, so just keep doing them over and over til you find your best route/method.

    Photosynth question: What do I do with the symbols after I’ve found them?

    Answer: Click directly on the word and it will complete the Photosynth puzzle automatically for you.

  23. Brandon

    Oh, forgot to mention: The photosynth puzzle word is found on only 1 photo out of all of them.

    So, if there are 12 pictures showing different angles of a chair, you may have to look at all of them to find the single one that shows the puzzle word.

  24. Saul

    Well, I’ve tried to chose different ones, but I might be on the wrong chair…

  25. Mark

    Scores for me:
    Earth: 128
    Air : 2550

  26. kim

    I can’t figure out how to do the Air puzzles. No matter where I put hte tiles, all the sphere does it drop up and down in the same place. 🙁

    Help please!

  27. kim

    never mind…I figured it out!

    However, fire is supposed to be available today, but I can’t play it yet. hmm!

    Btw…709 for round 1 and 5903 for round 2.

  28. szzq2

    Earth = 106
    Air = 2833
    can’t wait for Fire!

  29. Eugene Wong

    Just letting everyone know that Fire is already open. It’s a little like the game MasterMind, where you’ll have to guess the correct pattern, in this case, for different colored flames. Once you have pattern, click submit, and you’ll receive a hint as to how accurate your pattern is. The game goes back and forth until you have the correct pattern.

  30. Mr.Conductor

    Fire is up. Just tryin to do some number crunching, according to my guesstimate/calculations, there should be about 256 possible solutions (for level 1). Your best bet is to find one, stick to it and keep re-entering the same solution time after time. eventually it should come back around.

  31. Babygirl_77

    I must be super blind….I have been looking at chairs all darn day..and still not finding earth 🙁 Do you have to zoom in to find it? I think I know which chair ya’ll talking about but it is never showing up 🙁

  32. Eugene Wong

    It’s the very first chair from the back right corner of the room, right where you begin. I think it only appears in one of the pics so keep looking. Also, it’s on the front of the chair along the backrest.

    Has anyone had any luck finding FIRE? Argh, this is killing me 🙁

  33. Babygirl_77

    Ok that was not on that chair a few seconds ago!

  34. Mandy


    I got a 1251 on air. First try, too. Sheesh.

  35. cyzenis

    FIRE photosynth is on the leather chair by the couch in the study. It only popped up in one frame for me. These guys must like chairs…

  36. kim

    eek…not doing so hot am i!

    6301 total for all 3

  37. Tasso

    Its hard to know what a good score even is! I feel like I’m doing OK with 2913 (153 / 2408 / 352) is this decent at least? Is there a ranking somewhere?
    PS. Check out our new boardgame “TPOC: The Politics of Cannibals” when it comes out in March / April 09!

  38. rkhollow

    I have total 3811 earth- 144 air-3438 fire-229 the fire photosynth was the easiest one to find on the leather chair by the couch I moved a few times to the right and it popped up

  39. Eugene Wong

    Man, I really screwed up for Air (4256) lol. Earth, I’ve got 280, and Fire, 225. Looking forward to water now!

    Btw, is everyone playing this just for the fun of it – because besides all the major prizes, I actually don’t think they’re giving out anything else like the cryptexes from the DVC contest (I won one of those myself:) ).

    As for the location of FIRE, to clarify, it’s in white text on the front of the black chair by the couch in the other room. This is the chair furthest from you. Look for a pic that’s slightly distant from the chair, not a closeup.

  40. Jolene

    I’m having trouble with fire level 3. Patterns don’t make sense to me…they all look the same…any hints out there?

  41. air2477

    fire level three consists of
    one 2
    one 6
    one 8
    three 5s

  42. air2477

    a hint to solving fire. to find out what numbers are in the answer always do 1,1,1,1 submit, 2,2,2,2 submit and so on. If there are any 1s in the puzzle, you’ll get the amount in the white circles that show, if there are any 2s same thing. Do the consecutive combination for all but the last number (if there are numbers 1-8 do all the way up to 7,7,7,7,7,7) to see how many of those each are in the combination. Then using process of elimination find how many of the last digit there are. For example, the third solution has an eight in it, but by using subtraction (you already found it has one 2, three 5s, and 1 six, and 0 sevens) you can tell that the last digit is one 8 because there are only six digits in the solution. (1+3+1=5, no sevens, therefore one 8).

  43. air2477

    Total 8792
    Earth 271
    Air 8012 (sucked at this one! used too many arrows)
    Fire 514

  44. Jolene

    air2477, you are a genius. Solved fire level 3 with 208. Previous scores over 1000. THANKS everyone for your help.

  45. Jolene

    Looking forward to water! Total so far: earth 104, air 2368, fire 368. grand total 2840

  46. Vic

    Total for fire: 253….
    good or bad?

  47. Eugene Wong

    That’s pretty good, Vic. I got 225 on Fire w/ only 4 or 5 submissions per puzzle.

  48. Workyworkman

    WEll well well i ve found the word fire on top of a cathedral at the first round in earth, i dont know how but it was black and iwas just playing with the controls.. any ways 4000 total for all give or take..

  49. kellykounsel

    Wow… you guys must be better at this than I… I still don’t really get how to do the air puzzle! I am certain my first score (that happened by luck) was huge…

    Any tips?

  50. Robbie Ates

    Did something happen to your site? Last time I tried to access it, it was closed down.

  51. kalea

    Can anyone offer any suggestions on how to do the air puzzle? My scores have been horrible and I don’t know what I’m doing wrong.

  52. vic


    For the lowest scores you should never have to use more than 3 or 4 winds. You just have to constantly tweak their positions in order to travel the least distance etc etc.

  53. Daniel Nasserian

    @ Robbie

    It may have been a server air or due to maintenance. We are working on getting the site redesigned and onto a new host.

  54. Elaine

    do not know how to play fire game. cannot understand what others have said how to play. how do you play fire game, just cannotfigure it out

  55. Pedro

    Hi everyone. Here are my scores

    Earth: 1242
    Air: 7909
    Fire: 436.

    I don’t think I did too well on those, how are your’s scores compared to mine?

  56. Christ

    Earth- 108
    Air- 2827
    Fire- 222
    Total- 3157

    I wish I had spent more time tweaking the air puzzles. Oh well.

  57. Nanc

    how do i get a low score on the FIRE level? (i already messed up on the first two levels and need to not get a much higher score)….

  58. Evans

    Earth 121
    Air 2531
    Fire 312

    Total 2972

  59. Frost

    Ok, How am I doing so far?
    Earth – 82
    Air – 2096
    Fire – 193
    Total – 2371

    I got frustrated doing them after an hour so I just went with whatever score I got on the next round.

  60. Evans

    I would say pritty good? LOL You have someone you are taking to Rome?

  61. Teresa


    fire was hardest for me…..but used too many wind directions in air that killed me.

  62. Ayelen

    Hi! I’m writting from Argentina. I know that my participation in this contest is worthless because my country isn´t part fo it, but I’m such a fan of Dan Brown and I loved the Angels and Demons book so much that when I foud out about the contets I decided to participate just for fun.
    The thing is I can´t find the fire clue, and I was wondering if anyone has already done that level. Would that ‘anyone’ please give me some help to find it?
    Thanks a lot.
    And I’m just like you looking foward to finally enjoy the movie! I’ve got great expectations about it.

  63. Ayelen

    Thanks but no thanks folks. I’ve just found the fire clue. If someone wants to know where is it just ask me. Bye!

  64. Eugene Wong

    Read my comment above. I explain it there 🙂

  65. Edie

    Earth = 239
    Air = 3619
    Fire = 638
    Total so far = 4496

  66. Rachael

    Earth: 118
    Air: 2220
    Fire: 161
    Total: 2499

    Seriously just got tired of it (my scores kept getting worse and worse), so I just submitted the first decent score that came around. Think you just might be making it to Rome Frost!

  67. Brandon

    The real challenge is going to be round two. I think if you’re in the 2000s you have a shot. According to the rules, in round two, there will be no do overs. You will have to be lucky and good.

    I love this contest, it’s a lot of fun.

    From what I’ve seen and heard from other people and sites, the best possible scores are:

    Earth: 73
    Air: 1897
    Fire: 0

    No, I won’t tell you how to get these scores ( I don’t know how).

    The fire is zero because if the number happens to be all ones and you guess that, then your score is zero (not that that’s very likely). I think realistically, someone could get close to about 100.

    I’m guessing the best score out there is probably about a 2200 right now.

  68. Jessica

    HELP! I still can’t find the Earth symbol. I’ve looked on the chair, but I can’t get the photosynth to turn to let me see the back of the corner one where I start. Been through the slideshow with no luck either. Any pointers? Thanks!

  69. JoAnn

    Geez, I thought I was doing pretty good until I stumbled on this site and read the scores people have! I have crested 13,000 for my total! LOL at least the games are fun!

  70. Tim Zenobia

    even if you guess all 1s for fire it does not leave you with a score of 0…sorry there Brandon. That being said…four 1’s appear for round one of fire but not for round 2 or 3… Best possible score is between 100 and 200.

  71. Tim Zenobia

    My scores are as follows

    E: 78
    A: 2002
    F: 174

  72. Anthony

    A: 3626
    F: 338
    Total: 4085

    That Air Level was really tough. I only used 4 symbols on each puzzle to get the ball in the whole. with the shortest path yet still got an insanely high score.

  73. Anthony

    lol oops… meant hole…see what lack of sleep playing this causes.

  74. Summer

    My scores thus far-
    E: 177
    A: 3006 (I really hated that level.)
    F: 132
    Total: 3315

  75. David


    What is the breakdown for those low scores? Also, what other websites have you seen where people post the lowest scores they are getting? Thanks!


  76. Brandon

    Best possible score for fire is below 100. This I know for sure. 😉

    Breakdown (not that I got these)

    Earth: 16, 26, 31

    Air: 399, (lowest I’ve SEEN is 404), 699, 799, (lowest I’ve seen 801)

    Fire: (could be anything)

  77. Brandon

    Also, this seems to be the most active post. There are a couple on yahoo answers, and I’ve emailed back and forth with a couple of the other players.

  78. Frost

    If you put a lot of time into it I’m sure you could get a very low score on Fire, I mean eventually the cycle has to repeat itself. The key to this round so far was Air. I had individual rounds that were really low and if I added them I’d be around 1850-1900 but I couldn’t repeat it after the first time I did it.

    Getting to the second round will be the key, because if you only have one shot, your scores will be very high. I wonder what will happen to your score if you browser or computer crash in the middle of a game.

  79. Peter

    I still can’t find the fire clue in the photosynth. Is it possible that there are different versions of each photosynth (just like there are differentversions of the earlier puzzles)? So far, it doesn’t seem to be the case, but it is possible.

  80. Nick

    Can someone explain where to find the air symbol again??? I can’t seem to find it…
    E: 128
    A: 6041
    F: 150

  81. Jolene

    The fire clue is on the black chair to the right of the couch (as you’re facing the couch). You have to be facing the front of the chair, be far enough back and at the right angle for the symbol to appear. Keep trying!

  82. Jolene

    The air symbol is on one of the doors…each door has a bunch of squares, it’s in one of the squares. Sorry, can’t remember which door.

  83. Stephanie

    Total: 2510
    Earth: 101
    Air: 2277
    Fire: 132

  84. sarah

    Water is on the front of the desk

  85. Eugene Wong

    Heads up: Water was posted this morning.

  86. Glenn

    I have just finished water.

    Earth- 110
    Air- 2453
    Fire- 153
    Water- 135


  87. Mr.Conductor

    Just finished water along with the photosynth

    Earth: 156
    Air: 4355
    Fire: 224
    Water: 114

    The photosynth icon is on the desk. Just push the ‘play’ button and let the pictures scroll. You should be able to see it quite easily. At least it was’nt on another dang chair this time!

  88. Eugene Wong

    Qualified for Round 2! I had a total score of 4875 (screwed up on Air, argh). If you guys have a score lower than that, then I’m pretty sure you’ll make it. Good luck 🙂

    *Round 2 begins March 6th.

  89. kbell

    just finished – 3360 total – air did me in!!!

  90. Steve

    Just finished. Made round 2 with a 5806 total score

  91. Steve

    Btw looks like everyone who finishes round one makes it to round two

  92. Eugene Wong

    I’m just glad I don’t have to worry about my terrible score for Air anymore lol. Time for a fresh start w/ Round 2 🙂

  93. Robbie Ates

    I just solved water with a total on Water of 264! The symbol is on the desk & on my pc it was very out of focus! But I got it!

  94. Scott Carper

    Just finished. LOL, fire was pretty much the game Mastermind (the old board game). Well, I am not eligible to win because I am the son of a microsoft employee. Anyway here are my scores:

    Total: 2470
    Earth: 113
    Air: 2079
    Fire: 184
    Water: 94

  95. Melissa

    Just finished. At least I qualify, but I hate air. Except for the breathing part.

  96. steve in k.c.

    How many others didn’t know that you could use more than one of each Air direction? Lame instruction writing.

  97. gigi in ohio

    still can’t find earth, going blind! help

  98. Eugene Wong

    Dude, chair right behind you at the start. Look there. There were numerous discussions at the beginning of this comments board. Read through them.

  99. Deb

    You guys have really low scores. I got a total of 5915. Pretty bad eh. Anyway, Steve must be right cause I got into round 2 even with that terrible score. They’re even going to send me an e-mail reminder before the 6th. Obviously I’m not doing this for prizes.

  100. steve in k.c.

    2466 total. Word.

  101. Jared

    OK, that dang Fire word was so hard to find but at last…. If anyone else is strugeling here are some hints: it is located on the chair like everyone above has said, the black chair near the black sofa. The angle you need is like you are standing on the opposite side of the desk looking across the room at the chair. Keep pressing the backup button so that you have a far off view and then just keep changing views of the chair from left and right until the glow of the word starts to appear and then just zoom in.

  102. Stevi

    UGH!!! I’ve been trying to get fire by just hitting submit without moving any and I’ve gotten that as the right combo twice now, but when you try to submit the score it doesn’t show up as completed!!!! Why is this happening?

  103. Christopher

    So far I have 263 + 3357 + 419 = 4039. working on water now.

  104. Alba

    Lovely ones! Total score=2617. Let’s see how Round 2 turns out…so far this game has been reaaaally fun 🙂

  105. Frost

    Ok, so I thought I’d update my scores. Knowing that they combine both rounds, I wish I had taken my time more on Air and Fire. I got an 88 on Water.

    Total 2459

    I hope everyone has the same board in Round 2, otherwise, some will have a very distinct advantage with easier boards.

  106. dtap

    first time doing anything like this..thru 4 at 5574..tedoius

  107. steve in k.c.

    Taxes, if you win, are about $4,500. Congratulations.

  108. Rita J

    Thanks for the help, I have trouble seeing the Photos. Old eyes 😎
    Earth 165
    Air 3082
    Fire 320
    Water 136But, no photo clues yet.

    Not bad for an old lady.

  109. steve in k.c.

    Water is on the front of the desk. View at different angles from left a little bit and it should show up for you.

  110. samabal

    total – 2389

  111. Frost

    Ok, lowest total I’ve found so far is 2353. Has anyone seen lower?

  112. Brandon

    What have people found to be the lowest scores on each water puzzle.

    Puzzle 1 appears to be 17, anyone else?

    2257 going into water for me. It looks like I should end up under 2353, not that water looks easy for sure.

    LOL at Steve, way to be a buzz kill. Taxes

    Stevi, doesn’t look like it will take a zero score. You’re going to need at least a 1.

  113. Jessica

    Don’t worry, I got 9,910 and qualified for round two. Air killed me.

  114. kim

    I finished! With a 4050 total. Actually, i closed the window but I know it was 4000 something with a 5 in there 😉 I did get a message saying I qualified for round 2.

    I think anyone who finished all 4 puzzles before the deadline qualifies.

  115. Bruce

    total 19,233
    see you guys in rome

    The air portion was really dumb and the scoring system is not even close to symmetrical. Basically, for AIR, even if you do well on it, accounts for 80%+ of the total score.

  116. Brandon

    Total: 2341 😉

  117. Bruce

    Brandon, you have to be #1 in the whole freakin’ country, not just angryweb.org.com., to win.
    That’s a good score, but I’m not sure if you did it legally…sounds fishy

  118. Teresa

    just finished water, score = 131

    total 3669

    see ya on round 2

  119. Teresa

    jessica, first puzzle of water I got a 15.

  120. steve in k.c.

    Yeah Brandon has on the yellow jersey for sure, but we’ll see if he passes the doping test. I hear they’ve been coming down hard on these ‘Angels and Demons’ athletes.

  121. Brandon

    That’s just sad, Bruce. Don’t go there. There’s no illegal way to do it as far as I know. All you have to do is keep playing til you reach the lowest possible scores, which as far as I know are a couple hundred points lower than mine. Also, I never said I expected to win anything. Frost asked for people under 2353 to post their scores.

    If you want to know how I got my score, I can tell you. Don’t submit until you’re SURE you have the lowest score. I’ve also been trying to help people by posting the lowest possible scores that I’ve seen. That said, round 2 will be the deciding factor. It just gives you an advantage to do better in round one. Doing 16 puzzles, everyone is going to mess up a bit in round 2.

    Lowest Scores I’ve heard of:

    Earth: 16, 26, 31
    Air: 399, 699, 799
    Fire: 14, 34, 57
    Water: 14, 30, 40
    Grand Total: 2159 (someone in the country probably has this score or lower)

  122. Bruce

    Brandon, I still think you have a cloud over your performance, and everyone will be thinking you’re using performance enhancing drugs. I take it personally, because I’m all natural, and if everyone else was, including yourself, maybe my 19,000 score would be more competitive.

  123. steve in k.c.

    Sounds like Brandon is starting to sweat the inquisition. I mean how do you score so low on Air without some sort of help, like from helium or something. lol. That was a good one…helium…I crack myself up.

  124. Chad

    Not to beat a dead horse,but what chair for “earth” are we talking about. There are two rooms, one conference room with four rows of tables and a second room that has a row of chairs along the wall. What is your orientation for the back right corner that you’re talking about?

  125. David


    I found the “earth” one to be unusually hard to find also. One successful but painful method – if you just click the forward button of the slideshow about 315 times, you’ll get there.

  126. David

    …and 315 isn’t a random guess. It’s very close to that (I actually counted, although not precisely).

  127. Elaine

    just completed in 7584, air was a bummer.

  128. John Lovelette

    E 102
    A 5711
    F 311
    W 101

    Total 6245. I don’t know why I am so high in Air.

  129. Bruce

    Has nobody topped my 19,233?
    It looks like I’m the high point person so far. I looked at other websites and my score is still the highest one I can find…looks like I’m off to Rome!!

  130. Tim

    2345 total all 4

  131. Abby

    3456 for all 4, not bad. No way I could have found those photo clues without you guys help.

  132. CHAS

    I cannot find that earth symbol for the life of me, the photos run out just behind the chair, and I cant angle down behind it even with the rotation tool…………

  133. CHAS

    never mind I found it just after I left this message.ugh

  134. Chad

    OK one more time. In which of the two rooms is the Earth clue in? There is a room with 4 table groupings (and an alter) and there is a side room that has a row of chairs along the wall. Back right does not do anyone any good if they don’t know what point of view you have. And the only thing that is behind you is wall when you start.

  135. David

    It’s in the first, larger room with 4 table groupings. It’s pretty much the chair you’d sit in when the photosynth starts. However, I can’t manage to change the view from the starting position to get to that chair in any convenient way. The only way I know is to go through the whole slideshow. Even doing that, there will be a couple of occasions when you’re right in that area but don’t get the view you need. Just keep going and after a long time it will be clear as day. Good luck.

  136. steve in k.c.

    Earth can be found in as few as 8 or 9 clicks to the left. Keep highlighting the different outlines that look like a vantage point that faces to the left of your current position. Some are more extreme than others, but they will get turned around 180degress eventually. The chair it’s on will be the first chair in the corner of the room. You are basically sitting on the thing when you come in. Do not go to the right, do not go straight, always go left. You can tell what goes left by the perspective of the highlights.

  137. Chad

    Thanks Steve and David.

  138. Summer

    Just finished. Total- 3434

  139. Steve


  140. Steve

    E 90
    A 2137
    F 118
    W 98
    Total 2443

  141. Dede

    How do you acknowledge that you have found a symbol? I found water on the desk at last, but I’m not sure now to submit it.

  142. Jeff

    anyone know where the water clue is located..
    i’m done all the games, and am only the water clue away from completion..
    photosynth is the last thing from being considered, “user friendly”!

  143. redbird985

    Dede…. You should just be able to “right click” on it with your mouse, then it will automatically tell you that you’ve found it and take you back to the primary page with all the puzzles. BUT, it’s tricky…be sure that when you ‘click’ you have a very CLEAR sharp symbol showing up in the window. If it’s the least bit fuzzy or out of focus, or not smack in the middle of the frame, it won’t register it. You have to keep tilting the frames to get it properly sharp and in the middle. At least that how it worked for me.

  144. Dede

    Hi, thank you, that was my experience and evidently why it didn’t work at first. I finally got it it work.
    Wonder why the “instructions” didn’t mention this.
    I have 2 out of 4 and a too-much Photosynth-headache.

  145. alexz1231

    I qualified for round 2, I don’t know how!!!

    Earth 243
    Air 8679 (I really messed up this here)
    Fire 398 (for puzzle one I submit the score by mistake)
    Water 148 (was the easiest)

    Grand Total 9468! I really dont know how I qualified!

  146. Mark

    I think everyone qualifies for Round 2.
    Earth 128
    Air 2550
    Fire 210
    Water 117
    TOTAL 3005

    Round 2 will separate the wheat from the chaff. 1 shot at solving each puzzle… That will be a killer.

  147. vanessa

    Please if anybody could help me solve fire level 3 that would be greatly appreciated … I’ve passed everything else to qualify except that even though I’ve followed the comments above I can’t solve it!! its pissing me off since I’ve done everything else and the other 2 fire levels maybe someone could help me i’m obviously not very good at math! 🙁

  148. steve in k.c.

    Vanessa, what a lovely name. Of course we will help you. I personally got to the point where if I got anything near 100 on it, I would accept it. This may be redundant with what’s above, but I click right off the bat to see if anything is in the first row. Then I move the first toggle up one. If it is good, then Yay! If not, the coding will tell you if there is even a 2 in the combo. It is indicated by a hollow circle. If no hollow circle, then there are no 2’s. I then move this toggle up to the 3, the 4 and so forth. Each time you find the correct position with the toggle, move to the next one over and do the same thing, using the information you collected as you go about whether or not there is even that particular number in the combo. I always go left to right, and don’t do more than one, unless you know for certain where one goes and then you can place it there and use the click on trying the placement of another. This way you don’t waste clicks. After a while, you should start finding the combo quite quickly, but then it’s just a matter of getting a lucky puzzle that is process friendly for a low score. I imagine if you do it long enough, (maybe after a 1000 times) it may give you an all 111111 combo. Let me know how that works out for you.

  149. Elaine

    hi vanessa,
    I also had problems with it.
    the best way I found is to start with all 3 levels at one and then press enter to see where the correct pegs are ie. white pegs, black pegs and hollow on the chart.
    you are looking to get the white pegs so if you move each peg up a notch starting with the first one and then press enter again to see if it is still correct or should move again. Then move your second peg up a notch to see where that fits in and same with 3rd peg.
    you have to submit it to see where it is on the chart. Its a bit hard to describe and there may be a mathematical solution to finding it out but that is the way I did it. hope this helps

  150. Elaine

    how the hell did you get 2137 on air. that must be one of the best scores

  151. redbird985

    You’re welcome, Glad you got it…FYI for future symbols, they really ARE where people say they are. I found that sometimes you will click on the chair or desk or whatever and NOTHING shows up, but if you keep tilting and angling and going at it from certain sides, it WILL show up. I would have sworn people were lying when they said a symbol was on a dining room chair, but sure enough after much going round and round and tilting and plenty of foul language, I saw it!…lol.
    So thank you to all the helpful folks!

  152. vanessa

    steve in k.c., Elaine THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! for taking time and trying to help me I really appreciate it, Steve’s method was the one that worked and I somehow managed to get 220 for a score not the best but for me compared to what I was getting its amazing! thank you so much, now I can move on the next round even if I don’t win I still get to go a little farther! Thank you.

  153. Frost

    Ok, I’m just wondering how Bruce got that high of a score. Air is just a time issue. If you take your time to get the lowest score then you should be no higher than 2500-3000. Those that were lower spent more time, those that were higher spent less time. And those like Bruce must have placed 20 symbols on each board and watched the ball bounce off each wall.

  154. Steve

    Elaine, some of the boards had a shorter distance to go than others, so I just kept at those ones. Also, I found that you could double up the air symbols on top of one another and get greater distance shooting the ball across the screen, thereby using fewer symbols in the long run. Round 2, with only one attempt at each puzzle, scares me.

  155. Frost

    Assuming scoring is the same, air will control the score again so it’s good that your score doesn’t keep adding until you make it in. Also, I hope everyone has the same board, otherwise, that’s really not fair. Especially with air.

  156. Jessica

    I have found all of the pHotosyth clues but AIR… When you push the 3 dot button it show a picture of the 2 doors…which one is the air on…. I have looked at both of them at different angles and just can’t find it…please someone help

  157. victoria

    the air clue is on the furthest door when u push the 3 dot button. you just need to click on the square that highlights that door and it should be easily seen.

  158. sarahhh

    I cannot get past the water puzzles- I think they’re impossible! Anyone have any insight?

  159. Brandon

    Sarah, it is really hard, but you can can do it. You have to look ahead. If you want the block standing up in the hole, then it will have to be lying down in a two-square space beside the hole. Next, think about how you can get the block in those spaces. Work backward. There will be some blocks that you must be upright on and some you must be on the side.

    One more hint and it’s a little difficult to understand, but: If your block is standing up one block short of where it needs to be, you have to lay the block on its side and roll it backward one, then put it back up and you should be where you need to be. Many times you will have to make several moves to maneuver your block in a small area. Trial and error at first, then I promise you’ll get the hang of it.

    Good luck,

  160. redbird985

    One of the tricks is that you have to back up to the original BLOCK of squares you started on, switch your water tower around so that say…you are one block ‘forward’ or ‘backward’ than where you first started, then proceed forward again. I noticed many of them are NOT straight lines forward. It takes trial and error to see where the tall end of the block will fall. Sometimes you will have the length of it line up one block over or back. (re: you have to ‘roll’ it over instead of end on end). But I noticed that a lot of the water puzzles involve backing totally up to the start blocks and going forward again. It’s like tumbling them end over end, side over side to see where it falls…but as stated, many of them require going back to the start spot.
    Hope this wasn’t totally confusing.

  161. DilemmaDave

    I don’t know if this has been picked up on anywhere, but the little diamond symbol with the words “EARTH, AIR, FIRE, WATER” in it is one of those cool optical illusions (for lack of a better term) that is identical when rotated 180 degrees.

  162. liz

    total score was 4226 – air killed my score! looking forward to round 2.

  163. Sharaln


    Earth: 488
    Air: 4506
    Fire: 470
    Water: 125
    Total: 5589

  164. Alba

    I actually thought water was very easy…i hated air and fire 🙁

  165. econanonymous(^v^)

    noobs lol. finale score = 2298. who is ready for round dos! see u march 6th

  166. scott

    water photosynth is located on the front of the big desk with the single white chair behind it.

  167. sarahhh

    Thanks Redbird and Brandon! I ‘ve got one more water puzzle to go…

  168. katie

    do you think there is some way they take in to account the actual puzzle you played that resulted in a score? playing some earth puzzles… i don’t think they all have the same number of moves to solution, which varies the score–so you could have the lowest possible score for puzzle A, but puzzle B may have a lower possible score?
    Total 4179 … I know thats lousy, but oh well! it was a great diversion from work 🙂

  169. Brandon

    Found a 38 on water 3, so a score of 82 is possible.

    Good luck, everyone.

  170. sarahhh

    Total score for round one 9735- yikes

  171. Brandon


    You’re right. Each puzzle has a different lowest possible score. Not only do you have to find the lowest score, but you have to find the lowest score on every puzzle to truly get the lowest possible score. That’s how some of us got such low scores. I presume that’s why they gave us a week for each category. I agree it beats the heck out of work.

  172. chris

    total 5904 (eeewwww..!!)
    earth 275
    air 4405
    fire 740
    water 484

    I was confused about getting the highest or lowest score… anyways.. any comments???

  173. Rachael

    DilemmaDave, that’s an ambigram. The book Angels and Demons is chock full of them. I think the one with all the elements was called the Illuminati Diamond. I don’t know how many times I flipped my book over and over just to make sure the words didn’t change 🙂

    Good job everyone! Awesome scores. I’m in the 2600’s somewhere. It’s rough when I re-play and get MUCH lower scores than what I posted. Oh well, that’s the breaks!

  174. DukeOfE

    Yep, all puzzles have a different scores; I got tired of the repetitions so just started taking scores that looked good;
    finaly got the clues to enter.

  175. David


    38 on water level 3 is very impressive…are you certain about that or is there a chance you miscounted? It did seem very much like 40 was the most efficient score on the optimal board. Did you achieve it on the same board that you had earlier gotten 40?

    Hats off to you,

  176. Vanda

    Never done anything like this before but the remote chance of going to Rome was an incentive, however with a first round score of 9710 I can’t see it somehow ! Found the last level of water really tough but I was determined to finish – I only found out about the competition on Tuesday so I am glad that I at least completed it !!

  177. newcomer

    Wow, I can’t believe I didn’t know about this forum until yesterday. It’d given me a better sense for how badly I was doing! Btw, hello everyone. 🙂

    David, 38 on Level 3 of Water is indeed possible as that’s what I got…the only high point in a largely mediocre performance (my Rnd1 total is 3485). Looks like you’re someone who’s well into these puzzles. What are your scores like?


  178. David

    Hi Cheryl,

    Wow, 38 didn’t seem possible. I’ll have to explore that more. I submitted scores of 14/30/40 for Water (total of about 2400 for all 4, too lazy to write out the breakdown…nothing too unusual or inspiring). 🙂

    Maybe you shouldn’t say since some people might be trolling for clues, but would you feel comfortable saying which board you got the 38 on? (hard to describe in words, I know).


  179. Gerbzilla

    First of, Hello to all. I wish I had known about this forum sooner. It might have encouraged me to better my scores. Oh well. I don’t think I did too bad with a total of 2664 (E – 107, A – 2233. F – 212, W – 112). Guess I’ll just have to redouble my efforts for round 2. Good luck to all.

  180. David

    Cheryl and Brandon,

    Figured out the 38…very satisfying! Wish I found it earlier, but I appreciate you guys letting us know what’s possible.

    Good luck,

  181. Delder81

    Thanks to everyone! the photosynth was driving me crazy and your hints helped me find the clues. my score was not impressive but I’m glad I finished it
    E – 113
    A – 5106
    F – 500
    W – 204
    c-u next round

  182. Delder81

    BTW I did the air, fire, and water all within the last two hours

  183. Gina

    Hi all, just found this tonight and got them all done, just in time,
    W- 432
    total 5001

  184. madhottphish

    Hey guys. Three things:

    1) Thank you for the help on the photosynth symbols; couldn’t have done it otherwise.

    2) So far (missing level three fire):
    Earth: 80
    Air: 2001
    Fire: 87
    Water: 96
    Running Total: 2264

    3) Just a general FYI (I don’t want to start anything), there are glitches with “Fire”. I’ve caught multiple codes being changed and have proof of at least one from level one. Anyone know of a contact email for the contest? I’d just like to inform them of it.

  185. Baka

    Earth 80
    Air 1926
    Fire 120 (didn’t feel like spending time restarting it over and over)
    Water 86

    Total: 2212

    *sigh* seems like my good score is for nothing since people with much worse scores are getting into round 2…

    What do you mean code being changed?
    From what I understand is that Fire has some type of random generator. Also it has an exception of having all in the first row, because then people could have a score of 0.

  186. David

    Sometimes the fire codes are all 1’s, but it just won’t give you credit for getting a “zero” score if you guess it.

  187. casey


    Anyone who finishes all the puzzles and finds the Photosynth clues before the deadline qualifies for Round 2. Any score at all will get you in. Your low score will give you an advantage, though, because the 2 rounds will be added together to determine the winner.


    I don’t think there are any glitches in Fire. The problem comes when the player makes such strong assumptions about the hidden colors that the final result almost seems impossible. If you go back and really look at the guesses and all of the possibilities you will the answer was the same all along. I was sure several times there was an error, too, but when I really looked at it, I saw it was my error, not the game’s. It was really hard to see sometimes.

  188. smiller

    How do you do the air round. The left side air doesn’t do anything.

  189. Geoo

    Madhottphish, you’re right about the glitches i found one too where the final right answer didn’t match one of the set of dots.

    Final Score: 2970

  190. madhottphish

    Three more things:

    1) Name’s Kurt

    2) Final Scores:

    Earth: 80
    Air: 2001
    Fire: 252 (slipped on submitting level 3)
    Water: 96
    Total: 2429

    3) I caught Fire changing codes on me (or however you’d like to describe it). I have a screen shot of level, but so far have not been able to find any other change (I’ve probably repeated the level over 200 times).

    I can’t find any contact email for the contest and I really just want this out in the open (I don’t see how else they’ll know), so this is what I’ll do. I took a screen shot of the fire level on which it seems to have changed codes on me. If you’d like me to send it to you, I set up the below email.


    I’ll be happy to send it to whomever would like to look it over.

  191. Joy

    Started late (Feb 26 at 3pm – where does the time go?) but managed to finish 4 puzzles and photosynth by 3am – fire was hardest for me and my overall scores were abysmal (12000+) but had fun. The clue finding was harder than the puzzles. Wish I had seen this first. I did not seem to realize I could solve the puzzle layers and then re-solve for a good score.

  192. madhottphish / Kurt

    Baka, you were quite correct. There was no discrepancy with the puzzle I thought had changed codes.

    Shortly after posting the email, the administration of the contest contacted me and helped me to realize the correct interpretation, correlating with the solution as well.

    I’d still be happy to email the picture to those interested, but there is no longer any question of consistency in it.

  193. newcomer

    David, glad you figured out the 38. Sorry couldn’t get back to you earlier…don’t have internet at home. I know, my boss is not going to be happy when he finds out what I’ve been doing at work! 😛

    Baka, your scores are amazing! Yours and Brandon’s must be among the best. I’m especially impressed by your Air performance. Do you mind telling me what your breakdown was for Air and which puzzle you solved for Level 3? The lowest I got for level 3 was above 1300!!

    madhottphish, could you post the response from the admin? Just curious about what they had to say. Also, how did you manage to contact the admin or are they actually following these forums?!!


  194. madhottphish / Kurt


    My assumption would be that the administration keeps up on anything online having to do with the contest that they can find because they contacted me first.

    Their response was just an explanation of the solution as well as a ‘thank you’ for explaining it all to them. If you’d like to see it, please email me (firecodechanged@hotmail.com), but I’d have to post the picture for the administrator’s response to make any sense.


  195. Baka


    On level three of air I got 829. (But I know people who got 801-799!!!) *tried so hard for it… but couldn’t get that low*

    If I remember correctly, it was a puzzle where there was a key floating in the middle and both the start and the exit were in the top left. I hope this helps!


    Thank you, I didn’t realize that

  196. steve in k.c.

    Why don’t we just call this “The Air Puzzle Contest”, since that’s what it’s all going to come down to?

  197. lu

    hi there fellow game players..
    I scored around 4000..most of that was through silly air game and I only discovered contest a week before the closing date so didn’t get a lot of practice in!! Am really looking forward to round 2. Are there any runner up prizes?

  198. econanonymous(^v^)

    hello, does anyone know if there is any “more in-depth” information on round two on the net rather than what is already given in the aspect of a one-chance score? just curious

  199. David


    I actually think that the contest will be determined more by fire than by air. While the air scores are by far the highest number, the real issue is not the absolute value of a score, but the difference between a competitive score and a non-competitive one. That is, if competitive contestants can all find a way to score between 800 and 850 on air level 3, you can really subtract 800 from each and consider their scores to range from 0 to 50. Most likely, a handful of players will have an identical “best” score, whatever that may be.

    For fire, however, there is really an unpredictable range of possibilities for level 3. For levels 1 and 2, it is very possible to get a score of 1 if you were willing to take the time to repeatedly guess until you guessed correctly on the first try (with odds of 1:256 and 1:1296 respectively). For level 3, even repeated playing will probably get you in the range of 45 to 75, and will be based partially on luck. The person lucky and/or persistent enough to get a score of less than 45, while getting the optimal scores on all other sections, will be the one in the best position for round 2.

    I would agree that earth and water will not be the categories that determine the winner.

  200. Baka


    For it to be fair, I hope that in round 2 everyone will get the same puzzle to solve, even for fire. That will eliminate any luck to occur. (of course if people are working together this would be very unfair). I assume that it will be similar to the setup of level 3 or harder.

    But you are right, though I didn’t get the best scores on a lot of the puzzles my scores were very close. But my fire was very off because I wasn’t persistent enough to try for lower scores.

    But, I also agree with Steve that if someone isn’t good at air, but good at all of the rest. It might lose you the chance to win because the score will be much farther apart than if you were not very good at earth.

  201. David

    While neither way would be perfect, I think it would be fairer (more fair?) for the fire puzzle to be random in the next round. If there’s only one code, then it’s just a matter of time until someone posts it online. Then we’d all have to choose whether to play using standard strategies with no real chance of winning, or enter the known solution and feel a little dirty about it.

    I actually think that it’s perfectly kosher for people to play as teams, with friends sharing their solutions during the first round before submitting them. It does raise an interesting question for round two: can one person watch their friend play the second round before attempting it themselves? There’s no rule against doing this (is there?), and with a winner-take-all contest among thousands of people, every strategy that doesn’t break the rules should be considered.

    Almost every large puzzle contest requires the winner to bend the rules, but they should never be broken. (The Da Vinci code contest winner clearly broke the rules by using an automated mouse program, although I have to admit I was impressed with their creativity).

    I’m interested to hear what others think would be fair and unfair in this contest.

  202. Kurt


    I have to say, concerning your question of “an one person watch their friend play the second round before attempting it themselves?,” I see no reason for one not to.

    I am unaware of any rule against it, let alone the idea of one person setting up multiple accounts and using them in Round 2 to “practice.” As far as I see it, the PR for Angels and Demons was not wholly concerned with who wins or how, but getting the movie out there and raising interest.

    On the other hand, the game is based mainly upon skill, not luck and this is what attracted me to it. These are all puzzles, of which only the keenest mind will obtain the lowest score. Think of it this way (for those who’ve read the book – I’m only part way through it myself): the Illuminati set up a puzzle for only the most intelligent scientists to be able to crack and follow to the Church of Illuminati, but it didn’t matter whether they followed someone else, figured it out themselves, or found a “cheating” way to complete it – if they completed it, they completed it. The game will run the same way.

    Much like you’ve pointed out yourself, if someone is willing to take the painstaking time to repeat level one rounds to get the best score, they may just be smart enough to get together with friends on Round 2, or have already set up multiple accounts in order to “practice.”

    The end goal is the lowest score, but there’s no way to ensure that the game play is fair. May the brightest, most cunning person win!

  203. Brandon


    You’re absolutely right. Why wouldn’t you share your game strategy with someone who would take you to Rome or give you a motorcycle? BTW, my wife’s score is much better than mine. 😉

  204. ocubermensch


    Brandon I really want to talk to you but I would prefer to communicate through e-mail, please e-mail me at ocubermensch@yahoo.com

    Also, what’s the lowest score anyone has heard of someone getting?

  205. Kurt


    So your account would be the practice. Haha. So far my cohort has a lower score than me by about 100, so it’s not quite much better. We haven’t figured out our strategy yet. But it’s all for fun.


    Here are the lowest scores I’ve seen/heard of broken down by levels (but I’m sure there are some better ones out there).

    Earth: 16 – 29 – 32
    Air: 453 – 710 – 790
    Fire: 11 – 32 – 45
    Water: 16 – 34 – 46


  206. David


    I agree with you completely, and plan to use these methods myself. Signing up for multiple accounts using one’s own name would disqualify a contestant, but signing up friends and helping them complete the puzzles, and then sharing multiple (but legitimate) accounts for round 2 should not. The contest promoters will be happy to get new e-mail addresses and home addresses to use for future solicitations.

    Should a friend of mine become fortunate enough to win, a little part of me worries that a contest representative would ask them, “did you solve everything by yourself?”, and they’d say, “no, my friend did and I just entered the answers in my own account”….and then they’d take the prize away. This is very unlikely to occur, but I’m probably not the only one considering such situations. Again, as you said the primary goal of this contest is to generate awareness of the movie, not to crown a puzzle king or queen. And the “small print rules”, which are very thorough, do not forbid teams from collaborating with multiple accounts.

    The opposite is probably true…they want all of us to sign up our friends, even if it diminishes the integrity of the puzzle contest a little bit. Given the skill that these puzzles require, and the fact that effective teamwork is itself a skill, one could argue that the contest integrity is not compromised at all. But I’m sure solo players would disagree. 🙂

  207. Baka


    Brandon post something similar near the middle of the forum which is close but I’ll make my own and we’ll see how we all compare. I’ll star the ones I was able to get. I’ll make a ~ after Brandon’s and a ^ after Kurt’s.

    Earth: 16* – 26* – 31~
    Air: 398* – 699* – 790^ (Have you seen 790 with your own eyes? I have looked everywhere for a similar score and haven’t found it.)
    Fire: 11^ – 29* – 45^ (I’m sure its always possible to get lower with these)
    Water: 14* – 30* – 38~

    Grand Total: 2042-51 + Fire

  208. axl d

    I agree with you guys.
    Hm.. What would be fair? 🙂
    Those with a low first round will vote for only ONE “fire” code. Then all of them would get the same score and no one could be betrayed by bad luck.
    Others will vote for a random code. Thus, a good guess could open the door to Rome for many people.
    Different levels on “air” could surely be even more decisive.

    I may be wrong but I guess the “fire” will be chosen randomly like in round 1. Cause if more players tie for the best total score, the “fire” puzzle of round 2 will decide first. And after that the fire puzzles of round 1.. The conclusion is arguable but for me, that means a random code.

    Air, Water and Earth:
    Til now the developers did a really good job. I guess they will have made lots of different levels, they will have decided/calculated (for) a best possible score for each puzzle and that score will be the same for all levels. At least, that’s what I hope :).

    Hm..could be close in the end, though. Wouldn’t underestimate the scores for Water and Earth, too.

    Thank all of you for the comments and a big thx to the developers (so far :))!

  209. newcomer

    Great discussion! I see David and Kurt’s point about how getting together with friends and solving as a group is not against the rules (even though it’s too late for me to employ this strategy myself). But there is also a “slippery slope” aspect to this: can people post their puzzles for Earth/Air/Water online and the solutions to them as well, making the whole round meaningless? They can claim that all readers of their blog/forum are one group and that there was no rule about restricting groups to a certain size or declaring them before a certain time, etc. In fact, I suspect something like this will happen should everyone get the same puzzle for Earth/Air/Water. While we’d agree that this is outright unfair, the question is where is the line? And how is it going to be enforced? I’ve no answers…I just like to think out loud! 😛

    As for Fire, I don’t see any way the same code can be given to everyone. Very soon we’ll have thousands of people getting a score of 1 for that puzzle. True that having different codes somewhat changes the playing field, but contestants will just have to live with that. The Eurostar Da Vinci Code contest made up for this by taking the best of 3 attempts (at least I think so…alcohol could’ve killed those memory cells) which I thought was a great idea.

    Finally, I kinda agree with Steve and think that Air will be the make-or-break game. If Rnd2 is anything like Rnd 1 where Air accounted for 90% or more of the total score, being even 5% off from the best Air score pretty much negates any possibility of making up for it in the other puzzles. In my opinion, this score distribution mars what has otherwise been a very well thought out contest. Then again, as has been noted, the point of the contest was not necessarily to identify the greatest puzzle solver!

    Good luck to all,

  210. newcomer

    Ocubermensch: I think your question got transformed to a discussion about what the best possible score for Rnd 1 might be. So far as actual numbers are concerned, I came across 2170 and 2183 on another board.

    On this one, Brandon’s wife may have the best score. What would that be, Brandon?

    Do people KNOW of even lower scores? I realize that the best possible is in the 2050-2100 range, but just curious if anyone really knows of scores below 2150.


  211. Brenda

    Earth 70, Air 2077 (miffed b/c a glitch submitted my score and I didn’t want it submitted), Fire 172, and Water 106 Total 2425

    All things considered, not too bad I guess. I could have done better on Fire but got tired of messing with it and know I would have done better on Air if submitting my lowest had been possible. I wasn’t even touching my keyboard when it just submitted my score on its own. It wasn’t a long pause or even a short one so I don’t think it timed out and submitted it. I don’t know how it happened. Does anyone have a clue what to expect out of round two-any experience with DVC round 2? Thx

  212. axl d

    Wow! 🙂 70 for Earth, that’s really good.
    15/25/30. I had 31 in level 3..but you’re right, I checked and 30 is possible. Well done!

  213. David

    15?!? 30?!?!

    That’s the first I’ve seen of either possibility. I thought that 16/24/31 were the best possible scores for Earth. I had a feeling that 15 was possible for level 1 since there are three different screens (at least) where 16 is possible.

    Now that round one has ended, would you be comfortable saying which screens you used to get those scores? I’m really impressed.


    P.S. I haven’t seen this posted yet, but 393 is possible on level 1 of air. It’s the screen where the ball and door are right in the middle with a small block in between.

  214. ocubermensch

    axl d, what was your total score?

  215. ocubermensch

    Wow I did level 1 earth so many times and never got a 15…. but I just redid my level 3 earth right now and got the 30……. i submitted 31

  216. Brandon

    Wifey got 2156

    97 (22 on fire 2)

  217. newcomer

    That’s amazing, Brandon! Good for her! This is the best total score I’ve heard of so far. In fact, her total is less than what I got for Air alone! 😀

    I’ve been trying to play the Air puzzles again to see if I can improve on the scores I got. I managed to get my Level 2 down to 710 (yay!), but for the life of me I can’t understand how one can go below that! Some people have reported 699…that’s crazy!! I’m doing the one with both the ball and the hole near the bottom of an empty box (ball on the left, hole on the right). I must’ve tried it over 50 times and 710 is the lowest it’d go. Can anyone tell me what the magic trick is? There’s only one air tile to move around after all!


  218. casey

    Cheryl–You get the 699 using a different puzzle. You’ll get it!

  219. axl d

    @ David
    Air: I can confirm the 393. 🙂 But 790 on level three is truly impressive.
    Fire: You wrote 24 for the second level. That means a 69 was possible or even better..man..and I imagined I could go in a Tie Breaker with the 71. 🙂

    @ ocubermensch
    Don’t be angry. I’m superstitious :).

  220. axl d

    @ David
    The 15 in level 1: You start in the lower left corner, exit is in the upper right. Only one movable key. Now u know which screen?

  221. newcomer

    Good Lord! Thanks, Casey. And I wasted all my time on that Air puzzle…jeez. I’ve also been struggling with Air Level 3. I somehow assumed that the right puzzle to solve must be the one with the ball and the hole on the same horizontal line in the middle with a key floating in between. I’m not getting anything below 845. Is that the puzzle in which people have got 800 and below? I’m just terrible at this…

    Ocubermensch, care to share your scores? 🙂


  222. casey

    Cheryl-wrong puzzle for level 3 Air. Find the one where the ball has to go the shortest distance.

  223. ocubermensch

    axl can you give range of where ur score is in

  224. Kurt

    The more I read about these lowest scores and such, the more I’m thinking the winner is going to be someone who doesn’t have a job and works at this non-stop. Haha.

    To the thoughts of what Round 2 will be, my first thought is that it will be something like Earth or Water where you really have to think AHEAD. With that, they can weed a lot of people out quickly who have very similar scores, one bad move and you’re up 10-15% on score minimum. I think they’d get a lot of flack if they made Round 2 completely like Fire ’cause – as people have pointed out – it’s 90% luck and 10% diligence. I’ve point out before that the Path of Illumination was for those who could really figure out things that no one else could, so I see the “thinking ahead” as the closest example of that in the game.

    However, on a reread of the contest rules, there will be FOUR Round 2 puzzles. I’m pretty firm in my guess that they will be one each of the previous styles: one Earth, one Air, one Fire, one Water.

    @ Baka
    A friend of mine who’s playing got the 790 I mentioned on Level 3 Air, but I’ll check with him again just to make sure I didn’t remember incorrectly.

    And I was pretty upset that after submitting my level 1 Fire score of 27, I popped out that 11. I mean, the only lower score would be 1. Aahhh!! Haha (all in good fun.)


  225. Brandon

    managed a 22 on fire 2. Couldn’t get under 57 on fire 3, ended up taking a 61

  226. David

    790 is probably right for fire 3. My friend managed to get 791 (and I saw it with my own eyes on the screen).

    Thanks axl d for the description of the Earth 15 screen. I know what one you mean…I tested that one a million times and was sure that 16 was best! I’ll have to check it again.

  227. David

    …oops, I meant air 3, not fire 3. (791 on fire 3 isn’t quite as impressive).

  228. David

    Aaah…just got 15 on level 1 Earth. Beautiful. Thanks again, axl d. This forum is great.

  229. axl d

    Welcome 🙂
    I’m really looking forward to the second round! Most fun was Earth for me.
    Wish all of you good concentration for the fire puzzle and concerning air..that the ball won’t vanish before you want it to do so. 😉

  230. David

    May I ask which Earth 3 board you used to get a score of 30?

    I wonder if it’s the one where the screen is essentially a square within a square. I found that one to be the most difficult of the bunch…it would have felt right if the lowest score could be achieved on that board. Best score I could find for that puzzle was 33.

  231. axl d

    Exit around the middle, you start slightly above left. Four keys, not movable. You need all of them. Four barriers. Ok?

    Would you tell me, which screen you took for the 24 in level 2?
    Thanks! 🙂

  232. ocubermensch

    axl, what country are you in?

    did you get below 2100?

  233. Kurt

    Did they take down the Round 1 puzzles?

    The site seems to get partway in loading and then bails – I don’t know if it’s my browser or whether nothing is there.

    I wanted to go through and verify all the lowest scores! (aaahhh!!)


  234. ocubermensch

    the site works for me

  235. Brandon

    If I remember right, it’s the one that’s 14 x 14 and has one immovable key in the corner.

  236. ocubermensch

    whats lowest for level 2 air? 697 is lowest i can get……

  237. Brenda

    I actually got a 16/24/30. I couldn’t get below 16 on the first one. As to which puzzle, I couldn’t tell you. I kind of whizzed through them all with multiple attempts. I didn’t realize anyone was blogging about this stuff or I’d have paid more attention. There were a couple that kept annoying me so I kept trying hoping for a better one to come back around. Good luck in Round 2. I’m dying to go back to Rome. I think the chances are microscopic, but I’m willing to try. Vatican City is amazing and an all day must see!

  238. Kurt

    What map did you use to get 697?

  239. ocubermensch

    You start on top left of the map, and underneath you are 3 mines slanted, the exit is on bottom right.

  240. Brandon


    Never mind, I couldn’t beat 25, and that was the 16 X 16 one with the immovable key in the spike corridor.

  241. Kurt

    @ Ocubermensch
    First off, every time I come back to these puzzles, there’s MORE maps I’ve never seen before. How many do they have?

    Second, are you sure it was 697? I found the map and got 699, but can’t finesse a 697 as of yet.


  242. ocubermensch

    Modify it a bit so you slightly touch the top wall and you should be able to get down to 697

  243. Kurt

    @ Ocubermensch
    That seems so counter intuitive, but it really does work. Nice job! Now I just gotta’ find the map again to get the screen shot (I was so excited I completely forgot).



  244. axl d

    Thanks Brandon and Brenda ..I will try another screen on another day ;).

    @ ocubermensch
    Germany. Should you still be interested in the score in about ten days, I will tell you ;).

  245. axl d

    Btw a 20 is possible for Earth level 2, means a total 65. o_O 🙂

  246. casey

    20? Wow!!

  247. newcomer

    You guys are crazy, lol. I was trying to stay away from this discussion, but can’t seem to help it!

    Axl, which is the Earth puzzle you’re talking about?

    And, Kurt, I don’t understand…why wouldn’t you be collecting screenshots of past puzzles anyway? You’ve some sort of a blog going on…or is it just prep for Rnd 2? Either way, i admire the level of commitment you all have. 🙂


  248. newcomer

    Oops, I meant to ask Kurt why he is collecting screenshots, not why he isn’t. I think I need some caffeine…

  249. Kurt

    @ axl d
    I second the motion – what Earch Level 2 puzzle do you get 20 on?

    @ Cheryl
    I just like having proof. I’m going back with these ‘lowest scores’ and verifying them for myself. It’s practice for sure, but the screen shots are for my own personal OCD I guess. Haha. But you never know when something could come of use!


  250. ocubermensch

    nice axl, you are in germany that means i still might have a chance at country prize 🙂

  251. casey

    @ ocubermensch

    Unless you have a score below 2100 and multiple accounts, David will be very hard to beat for the US country prize. Anything is possible of course.

  252. newcomer

    Kurt, haha…totally understand. Btw, I just sent you an email at the firecodechanged address.

    Ocubermensch, considering that you’ve been after Axl’s details with such gusto, don’t you think you should reveal your scores as well? It seems a little unfair otherwise…


  253. axl d

    Earth level 2: You know the screen with the five squares? One little square in each corner and one in the middle. You start in the upper left, exit is in the lower right corner. Four movable keys, six barriers. Try it :), maybe it gets even better.

    God..65. -.- Where is this going to end? 🙂

  254. casey

    Thanks Axl.

    Early in the game someone posted on Yahoo Answers the following scores for Earth-15, 16, 18 and a score of 700 for Air Level 3. I could never match them so, I just hoped it wasn’t true. Maybe they really are possible.

  255. axl d

    😀 Hope for all of us, that was no serious answer!

  256. Kurt

    @ Casey
    15/16/18?!? 700?!?

    @ axl d
    I’m hoping they will eventually post the best possible scores once the contest is finished.


  257. casey

    @ Kurt

    That’s what I thought! Impossible, but if Axl can get level 2 down to 20 with the possibility of going lower, who knows? There are a lot of different orders the movable keys can be opened. I can’t imagine how to get a 700 in Air, though.

  258. ocubermensch


    I scrolled up and noticed David posted a score of 2400, does he have another account with a lower score, if so, what is the score?


  259. David

    Hi gang,

    I haven’t posted the exact score that “my friend” achieved…forgive me for being a little paranoid. Even though the friend is a real person with a real account who is willingly collaborating with me and entered a few solutions herself, the fact that she hasn’t been the one to primarily solve the puzzles makes me reluctant to say the exact score. It’s under 2100.

    697 on level 2 air is very interesting. The 699 solution never felt like a satisfying solution, since it’s not particularly creative and doesn’t take any steps to shorten the path. Kudos on 697.

  260. David

    I just got 687 for level 2 air. Damn. It’s the same screen as the 699, with the right-blowing air as high as it can be to affect the ball. The up-blowing one can be adjusted to result in 687. The ball doesn’t even touch the top wall.

  261. David

    I’m somewhat happy to say that I’m having trouble reproducing the 687, so it’s not as though it’s easy to get. If I can get it again I’ll try to be more specific about where the two icons need to be placed.

    So now the best known scores are:

    Earth 1: 15
    Earth 2: 20
    Earth 3: 30

    Air 1: 393
    Air 2: 687
    Air 3: 790

    Fire 1: 1
    Fire 2: 1
    Fire 3: 1 (lowest possible, but not very likely. I won’t say what I got…let’s call it 50)

    Water 1: 14
    Water 2: 30
    Water 3: 38

    Lowest possible score (using a score of 1 for fire 3):

    Lowest possible score (using a score of 50 for fire 3):

  262. Lee11

    As I understand, each computer has it’s own individual IP address, I hope everyones “friends” scores are submitted on their own computers. I would think that a contest of this magnitude would check out any potential winner with the data stored on their server and see how many entries came from the same IP address. “Why yes, all 20 of my friends registered at my house!” I don’ t think they’d buy that as legit.

  263. David


    Why not? My friend was visiting me at our home when I told her about the contest. She registered while here and played every time she came to visit.

  264. casey

    @ Lee11

    Yes, you would think so, but the rules for this contest make no mention of IP addresses. It might be a good idea for contest promoters to limit entries to 2 or 3 per IP. That would take in account families using the same computer. However, contestants determined to have multiple accounts can always find a way. It is very hard to monitor.

  265. David

    …although I would agree that 20 registered users from the same home would be suspect. Still not illegal though and impossible to prove that many different people played on the same computer.

    I would guess (and hope) that as long as all accounts are legitimately associated with different people with independently verifiable e-mail addresses, that it’s above board.

  266. ocubermensch

    Well David we are close, but sounds like you have slightly better score at the moment, good luck in round 2

  267. casey

    David didn’t say, but he could have more than 1 “friend” with a score near or below 2100. If this is so, he will have more than 1 chance at achieving a low final Fire score. This could certainly give him the advantage.

  268. David


    What country are you in? It would be great if we could both win. I wish you all the best too.

    At this point, any scores within 50 points of one another are very competitive, and any scores within 10 points have almost identical odds of winning (if the fire puzzle is the same as level 3 or harder). The winner will certainly need a little luck.

    The top 20 scores at the end of this contest will probably belong to the 20 most skilled competitors, but the winner may simply be the luckiest of those 20.


  269. Lee11

    The scores on air can in fact be much lower. I’ve been waiting for days to see who else discovered 633 for air level 2.

  270. David

    633! That’s amazing! Did you submit that score?

    Would you be willing to say what board you got that on?

  271. Lee11

    I don’t mind. It’s the one with 3 keys in the middle. You need 3 air tiles to do it. One a little below the rt. of the ball blowing to the left. And 2 more slightly below and to the left of the first tile I mentioned. One blowing up and one blowing to the right (almost on top of each other). I think most people assumed it would require so many air tiles to pass through 3 keys it wouldn’t work. But it’s actually less distance than any of the others.

  272. casey

    @ Lee11

    You’re a genius! I am kicking myself because I used 3 winds exactly the way you described for this puzzle, too, but I never seemed to be able to get it under 700. You had the patience to keep tweaking it.

  273. David

    That’s fantastic. I haven’t been able to reproduce that yet but I trust that it can be done. Congratulations, Lee11…that’s really impressive. I certainly had tried something similar many times before deciding that it wouldn’t lead to low scores. I wonder how many people figured that out.

    Did you do as well on all the other sections?

  274. David

    And Casey, were you able to get 633 (or something close)?

  275. David

    Okay, I was able to reproduce the 633. Sigh. That’s a huge advantage to those who figured it out, and I can only imagine that there are quite a few others who aren’t posting online who got that too. It’s a much more elegant solve than the 699 that many of us submitted.

    Hard to make up 66 points elsewhere, but anything’s possible.

    Well done.

  276. ocubermensch

    wow if 633 is possible in round 2 pretty sure my chances are low

  277. Brandon


    I started playing with that one again yesterday with the same strategy but wasn’t able to get it under 700, then I saw the 633 post. I thought there might be something to it since my first try I got 714. I gave up on that one before really giving it a shot, too. That one could be a game changer.

    I wonder whether everyone will have the same puzzles (other than fire) come the 6th. I doubt it.

    In any case, it’s nice to blog with you all, you all seem like pretty bright bulbs. I think you’d have to be terribly brilliant to win this thing. Good luck to you all.

  278. Kurt

    633?! And like people have said, that’s just the lowest that people willing to post have found. I don’t want to imagine what the absolute lowest is.



  279. Brandon

    I have an idea that I think would be fun to keep the discussion going and would be good practice.

    Play each level 3 puzzle once. Do not reset the puzzle. Post your scores on this board.

    Unfortunately we’re all fairly familiar with all of the puzzles, but I think it will give a pretty good idea for realistic scoring outcomes.

  280. ocubermensch

    Hey Lee what was ur score for round 1

  281. Lee11

    Wanna hear a funny story? It was the last day for water, I looked at the rules which said last puzzle must be completed by 9:59 am. I thought it was supposed to be midnight or something. It was 9:42 am and I still hadn’t submitted last 2 water scores or the photosynth. I freaked out and started to try to at least get scores submitted (no time for perfection) and finished at 9:57 with a crappy total for water of 108. Now here’s the funny part. A few minutes later I looked at my cell phone and yelled “OOOOOHHH Fuuuu…..”. My husband was like “What’s wrong with you?” It was only Feb 26. It’s a little funnier now, but not much!

  282. axl d

    633?! Great! 🙂
    Wow..that’s tough.. 😉

    Many of us lost these 66 points.. The more people with the 633, the lower our chances, I guess. But hey, nothing’s impossible! Don’t give up yet! 🙂
    Great discussion here

  283. ocubermensch

    lol good story lee, but did you still manage to get under 2100?

  284. Kurt

    @ Lee
    Something similar:

    I had held off from submitting any scores for ANY of the puzzles until Feb. 26th with the thought that “Earth isn’t ‘due’ until the morning of the 27th and it would be best to continue practicing as long as possible.”

    To make it short, a friend of mine (also playing) texted me and made me realize that EVERYTHING was due by the following morning. I panicked! I was up ’till 4am finishing the puzzles cause I knew I had a 9:00am meeting at work the next morning (so I couldn’t do any of it there). I came in the next morning, had my meeting, got back to the lab, had lunch, then came back to this forum and realized that the deadline was not EST, it was PST. I had until 12:59pm to finish. And every time someone posts the newest low score, I just want to cringe. Haha

    @ Brandon
    I think that’s a GREAT idea. I’ll go through it a couple times tonight and get back.


  285. Brandon

    First attempt,

    e 39
    a 879
    f 126
    w 50

  286. Brandon

    First attempt total 1094

    Second Attempt:

    e 38
    a 1141 (the one where you have to go to the left then all the way back to the right)
    f 94
    w 62

    2nd total: 1335

  287. Brandon

    Third attempt:

    e 46
    a 815
    f 87
    w 38

    Total: 986

  288. David

    So glad this forum is here. There aren’t a whole lot of people I know who wouldn’t be bored to tears hearing about the details, and I know better than to subject my wife to more than 5 minutes per day about it!

    Lee11 and ocubermensch – would you be willing to say which 50-point range your scores are in? 2000-2050 / 2050-2100 / 2100-2150, etc.?

    Lee11 – did you find a way to beat 393 or 791 for the other levels of air?

  289. David

    On another topic:

    As far as someone using multiple accounts for this contest, it would be very difficult for one person to complete more than one competitive account. If the only way to get the lowest scores on fire is to play it for hours until you get lucky (and combine skill with luck on level 3 unless you’re outrageously lucky), few people would have the ability to dedicate that kind of time to multiple accounts.

  290. Kurt

    First Attempt:
    E: 45
    A: 907
    F: 125
    W: 48
    Total: 1125

    Nice run!

    @ David
    There only needs to be ONE person who takes that much time to do the “difficult” and complete multiple competitive accounts. Remember, there’s only one winner.


  291. David


    That’s certainly true, but the number of hours in a day does put a realistic limit on the number of entries even a maniac could accomplish. Maybe 4-5 if they fully dedicated their life to the task, but not 20.

    Back to the 633 score…that’s particularly impressive because there’s a way to get something like 715 that looks for all the world to be the most efficient way to solve it. The ball just touches the left-most key and then takes a direct arc to the hole. After seeing that, even a perfectionist would be tempted to assume that it would be tough to shave 15 points off the score, let alone 83.

    There’s no way to stumble across that 633 solve by accident…those who got it deserve the advantage they hold.

  292. David

    Since we’ve got a few days to pass before round 2, a new topic to discuss could what strategies people used to get a low score for fire level 3.

    My approach was to repeatedly restart the game unless one of the following occurred:

    1. at least 3 white circles
    2. 2 white circles plus at least 2 hollow circles
    3. 1 white circle plus at least 3 hollow circles
    4. at least 4 hollow circles

    The plan was to play this way for one hour, write down the lowest score, and then play for as long as it took to beat that score (…it took about 4 hours).

    Not sure how I’ll manage round two, since this method obviously would not apply. There’s probably no strategy better than crossing one’s fingers, taking great care to avoid mistakes, and hoping for some luck.

  293. Lee11

    “bored to tears”, I love that saying

  294. David

    Lee…I take it you’re not comfortable talking about your scores. Should we stop asking? 🙂

  295. Lee11

    Slightly under 2100. The last two digits just happen to be my lucky number so I feel like that’s the secret part.

  296. David

    Fair enough, and thanks for sharing. I assume you’re playing in the US?

  297. Lee11

    Santa Barbara CA – Where are you guys?

  298. David

    Oakland, CA.

  299. axl d

    @ Brandon

    first attempt

    Earth: 40
    Air: 803 (was lucky there)
    Fire: 92
    Water: 124 (<- don’t ask -.-)

    total: 1059

    The difference can be really high..and you’re right, we are familiar with THESE puzzles..so nothing should be decided yet.

  300. Steve

    Just got my notice saying I had made it to round two. One of 437 Canadians to do so, how many else where?

  301. casey

    3497 made it to Round 2 in the United States.

  302. Annette

    3948 made it to Round 2….Congratualtions to the other 3,496

  303. Annette

    3497 contestants from the U.S. made it through.

  304. axl d

    Only 61 from Germany! o_O

  305. Brandon

    Nice Steve,

    Your odds are looking decent for a country bid. Any other low scorers from Canada that we’ve seen?

    Pueblo, CO here.

    @ David,
    email me @ marlettfamily@yahoo.com and I will help you out with the fire. It’s a great way to separate yourself from the pack, so I’m not sure why I’m willing to help you, but if you win, you’ll have to send me a souvenir. My strategy is solid and will ALMOST ALWAYS lead to a fire score under 100.

  306. Brandon

    BTW, there is a new photosynth, looks huge. It looks exactly how I imagined it would from the book.

    I’m guessing they’re going to make us find the diamond shaped ambigram or the illuminati one. I’m not going to waste too much time on it til I know what I’m looking for.

  307. Brandon

    4th attempt

    e 36
    a 1141 (there is no hope for getting a decenct score on some of those)
    f 99
    w 55

    Total: 1331
    (Air is just too important and it just seems to come down to chance.) ;(

  308. casey

    @ Brandon

    Are you talking about St. Peter’s? Wasn’t that just the practice photosynth?

  309. Brandon

    5th attempt was good.


    Total: 1017

  310. Brandon

    @ Casey,

    I never noticed it before. Maybe it’s been there all along, but I don’t remember it.

  311. ocubermensch


    Only 3497??? Also consider all the multiple accounts… if I would’ve known that such few people would move on to round 2 I would’ve spent more time on it.


  312. Lee11

    Please help. Everyone has gotten their emails and my husband and I haven’t. We did everything to our knowledge to sign up with windows live id, it told us it worked, it’s let us sign in to the game with our info. but something must not have been completed. I looked at my email, I did the confirm address for windows live id and got the email that says welcome. I don’t get this live id thing. I feel like crying.

  313. Brandon


    That’s awesome odds. Probably those other 60 aren’t as crazy about this stuff as all of us are. 😉 You’re practically a shoe-in for your country prize. It likely isn’t as exciting a prospect for you, since you’re a train ride away from the destination, but that’s really cool. I’m sure the hotel is fantastic and a movie premier for a great movie sounds like a great time. Plus, the grand prize is still in play.

    This is so fun.

  314. Lee11

    It’s saying I don’t have an inbox on one acct. (Isn’t that what signing up is for?) and the other acct. looks fine but no message.

  315. Brandon

    @ Lee,

    I just got mine at 8:02AM today. That was only a few hours ago. I wouldn’t be too worried yet. Check your junk folder, it’s not likely since it’s from MSN to be there but you never know.

    Your live ID is most likely your email account that you used when you signed up. It’s likely a hotmail or an msn address or a live.com address. You will have to go to that account to find the email, I think.

    If you need more help, just email me, I’ve posted my email on the board.

  316. casey

    @ Lee11

    You are not alone! I didn’t get an Email either and I signed up just like you did, without a hotmail account.

    I have just sent an Email to the contest administrators at Eprize and have received an auto response that they will get back to me within 3 days. I took a guess that since Eprize is the administrator for the contest, they are the people to ask.

    My board says that I am qualified for Round 2 and I am sure yours does as well, so hopefully we can continue tomorrow.
    Also, we know from Kurt that the contest admins also read this blog, so maybe they will look into it today.

  317. Lee11

    Is there a supposed to be a separate windows live id # apart from my email add and password I used to sign up?

  318. Lee11

    Thanks for the info. Casey. How did you even find an address to email them – I looked everywhere?

  319. casey

    Well, if you look at #2 in the contest rules it lists ePrize as contest administrator. I looked them up online and found a toll free number, where I got a recording to Email them. (It ‘s like a spy novel.)

    I couldn’t get a live person, just recordings, but you might want to try again, it’s been a couple of hours. I sent the Email to fulfillment@eprizefulfillment.com which seemed to be the place to send questions about current promotions.

    I hope that they are reading this blog and see that there is a problem with contestants who registered like we did.

    I have a low score for Round 1, too, so I am really concerned about this.

  320. axl d

    @ Lee11
    Hopefully they will write you soon. But if you have that “qualified for round 2”-message, when you sign in..you should be safe.
    Keep us informed anyway!

    @ Brandon
    Thanks 🙂
    Even if there are only 60..you never know. I will do my best! And I didn’t see Rome before, I’d LOVE to go there! 🙂
    Besides, you’re right, the grand prize is great motivation!

  321. Lee11

    Ya I’ve gotten those “you qualified” messages, but no emails. Just one question though – did you get your emails by logging into yahoo.com type acct. or did you actually have your email addresses tied into windows live id website?

  322. Brandon

    @ Casey,

    Great Detective Work!

  323. casey

    @ Brandon

    Thanks. I try!

  324. ocubermensch

    Lee, pretty sure you need a windows live id to register for the contest……. so you wouldnt get the email to your yahoo type acct, however i dont remember the sign up screen was so long ago

  325. Brenda

    Sounds like you guys are really practicing. My classes and work are keeping me far too occupied to practice. I guess I’ll just have to cross my fingers and dive in. I am curious-has anyone read the books? I read Davinci Code and just bought Angels but I had an exam today, so I wanted to wait till I finished to open it. I have a hard time putting a good book down and my exam score was much more important than this contest score, HOWEVER, not nearly as much fun. Good luck!

  326. Brandon

    @ Brenda,

    Angels and Demons is a fantastic book. Read it a few months ago.

  327. illuminati

    The email communications that were sent function as a reminder that Round 2 starts tomorrow. Although they also indirectly confirm participation in Round 2, not receiving one is not an indication that you are not a participant. If you completed all the levels of each element and found all the Photosynth ambigrams you should be able to start playing Round 2 tomorrow at 10am PT.

  328. casey

    @ illuminati

    Thank you for responding!

    Is there any way to fix the Email problem for future communications should there be any?

  329. ocubermensch

    if admins read this board:

    Please disqualify people who have multiple entries from the same IP, I do not understand how that would be justified as fair when people like myself only have 1 entry submitted on this IP

    It really angers when I read people like David publicly admitting to submitting various entries and people like casey saying things like “David didn’t say, but he could have more than 1 “friend” with a score near or below 2100. If this is so, he will have more than 1 chance at achieving a low final Fire score. This could certainly give him the advantage.”

    Cheaters, I thought maybe you didn’t receive an e-mail because you cheated and have multiple entries

    Oh well, good luck and I hope a cheater like David, or someone who supports cheating like Casey doesn’t win

  330. casey

    @ ocubermensch

    You have totally misinterpreted me. I have no idea what score David has and I don’t personally know him. I was just speculating on the possibilities based on David’s previous posts on this forum regarding the strategy he was using. I was reading between the lines when I guessed his score was under 2100 and I was right. I thought his comments were far too detailed and well thought out for his score to be just mediocre.

    I certainly do not support cheating and do not understand what I have written that makes you think I do.

  331. ocubermensch

    ok sry for misinterpreting you

    but i still I hope the admins can figure out a way to differentiate between legit entries and multiple entries from cheaters like David

  332. Brenda

    Dumb question…couldn’t find it in the rules…if you happen to get killed on your first attempt will you continue to get attempts until you complete the puzzle as in the first round (as your score mounts ever higher) or are you just out? I am assuming/hoping that isn’t the case.

  333. ocubermensch

    oh for some reason it sounded like you are really close to david since you seemed to know a lot about david’s multiple entries and scores

    my bad

  334. ocubermensch

    If you look at scoring criteria in the rules, it says

    Your score will be determined based on the Scoring Criteria described in Section 5(a) above. You must complete all four (4) puzzles in Round 2 by the required deadline to record a score.

    5a rules:
    •Puzzle 1 score = (number of rotations) + (number of jumps) + (distance (per grid unit) the sphere traveled) + (number of deaths x 10)
    •Puzzle 2 score = (distance (per pixel) the sphere traveled) + (number of ‘air’ tiles used x100);
    •Puzzle 3 score = (total number of pegs placed) + (number of rounds needed to complete x10); and
    •Puzzle 4 score = (total number of moves) + (number of deaths x10).

    So yeah, you can get killed but it’ll really hurt your score greatly

  335. Lee11

    I guess I still just don’t really understand why some people get a “congratulations” reminder and some don’t. That’s weird!

  336. Canuckgirl


    With all due respect. We have three adults in our home who did the contest, all of us have seperate emails and are all of age. No where in the rules did it state that all three of us couldn’t play (even with the same ip address). All three of us are registered seperately with our real info.

    Would you suggest we should all be disqualified as well? (our scores were nothing fabulous but that’s not really the point now is it?)

  337. David

    To all admins:

    First of all, thank you for creating a contest that has been very enjoyable so far. Please help those of us on both sides of a debate to clarify the contest rules:

    Is it against contest rules to encourage a friend to register, and then to work with them to complete the contest? My friend and I have honestly both worked on it…she has played every puzzle, can reproduce the solutions, and understands all the details of the contest through direct participation. However, being a more avid puzzle person, I was able to find lower scores than her for each level and showed her how to achieve those solutions.

    I also openly admit that for all the fire levels, even though she completely understands the method, I did the grunt work of reloading the games because I had more time to devote to the task. I see this as teamwork, although I understand that others here see it otherwise.

    Because I would not be able to go to Rome for family reasons, we are using her account as the competitive one. Again, with complete honesty, we are planning to get together to play my round 2 as a practice run, and then attempt hers as the real one. This gives us an advantage, but a puzzle contest is arguably about finding ways to gain an edge while following the rules.

    We took great care to read through the rules of this contest, and we would genuinely want to know if we are in violation of the rules by approaching the contest this way. Hopefully you will confirm that my friend and I can continue to play in good conscience.

    Thanks, and good luck to all in round 2.

  338. moz

    @ David
    You didn’t break any rule, the contest rules are made for things they can actually control, besides the trip for Rome is for 2, so it makes sense that contestants solve the puzzles with the person they want to go to Rome with.

    @ ocubermensch
    I think they’ll do all they can to disqualify people multi-accounting. I don’t think they are going to be doing IP checks, because of the reason Canuckgirl explained. They’ll probably check for registrations with the same e-mail, same name, last name, address, etc And they’ll probably ask potential winners for some kind of identification to match the registration information.

  339. Rita J

    I got an email saying that I am in Round 2. My score is not as good as any here. Was there some kind of draw?
    I am enjoying the puzzles.

  340. moz

    Qualification for round 2 hast nothing to do with Scores, all you had to do was complete all 4 puzzles and find the clues.

  341. gamepro

    I got a 389 for Air Level 1: Is that a record??? 🙂 lol

  342. ocubermensch

    yeah thats chill if you have a couple people in ur household but it sounded like david is simply just getting names of his friends and registering with their info and submitting entries for them and can justify it based on using different identities…

    so yeah i’d understand if theres a couple entries in a household but it can be exploited to enter like 10-20 entries based on that which is highly unlikely and i hope admins are checking for that

  343. ocubermensch

    i think that is a record gamepro, what was ur total score for round 1?

  344. Eugene Wong

    Wow, how on earth (water, air, and fire…bad joke…) did our comments board become so popular?? I seriously get e-mail updates for every single post you guys make LOL. Thanks for keeping the board alive and making it as huge as it’s become.

    Round 2 begins tomorrow and it looks like only 3,497 US contestants made it through. I’ve posted the entire e-mail I’ve received from Microsoft up above.

    Also, don’t hesitate to check out our main site, AngryWeb 🙂 We have a ton of random, yet entertaining stuff for you guys to meander through.

  345. Lee11

    OK, I’m sorry if I’m still stuck on the email thing but the game site clearly say’s “We will send an email reminder” not ” We MIGHT send an email” or “We will send SOME people reminders and not others!” I just think it’s very strange….but WHATEVA!

    Where’s David at?

  346. Lee11

    I must have no life because I think I checked this forum like 100 times today!

  347. newcomer

    Lee11, sorry to hear that you haven’t received the email. You had a great score too! Hope it all works out and you’ve no problems logging in tomorrow. Btw, did you check your junk mail settings? Do you have some sort of automatic deletion enabled? I ask because Hotmail tagged the mail from A&D as junk mail for me…and both are part of the same organization!

    Ocubermensch, while I understand your frustration, there’s no easy way for the organizers to weed out the multiple accounts. Maybe this IP address method is one way (not too comfortable with all these concepts myself) if there are a large number of submissions associated with the same IP address. However, where I live there are quite a few unsecured wireless networks floating around, so maybe one can get around this check by logging on to different networks for different accounts? I’m not sure…


  348. Lee11

    Yah I definitely checked my junk mail. Oh well, I guess I’m not very special. But thanks anyway!

  349. Eugene Wong

    Re: Lee11, “We will send SOME people reminders and not others!”

    Must’ve been written by a Microsoft intern hehehe.

  350. J

    Is the latest Photosynth from St. Peters another puzzle to complete or is it just from the practice round?

  351. steve in k.c.

    David, I think you are taking this a little too seriously. You can still run for Prez. even though you are cheating, as they don’t really vet anyone anyway.

  352. Brenda

    St Peters Photosynth has been there since the beginning. I wandered through it while trying to figure out how to work the thing. It’s nothing new. I think everyone sounds a bit on edge-anticipation? As for those who didn’t receive emails, if you log on and it says you’re on to round 2, I’d just take it at face value. I help my husband run a business from home and if we relied on emails for anything we’d be out of business. As I figure I am one of the older people hanging out here (44), I can suggest a little advice. What is meant to be will be, just have fun and relax. If you’re tense you certainly won’t do well. I figure I’m footing the bill for my next trip to Rome and without the benefit of a glam movie premier, so I’m just going to give it my best shot. Good luck!

  353. Brenda

    I am in Texas by the way. It’s hot and not in a Paris Hilton kind of way…

  354. Lee11

    Hey Brenda, one of my best friends lives in the Woodlands, TX.

  355. J

    Thanks Brenda!

  356. David


    lol…you’re right, I should probably relax a bit. still, no one likes to be called a cheater, and I’d rather clarify things now than have my friend go through an inquisition later.


    389! Impressive. By the way, I recall the name gamepro from the ATT / DAR forums on a website called tweleve.org…are you the same person?

    FWIW, I’ve not received an e-mail either. Maybe it’s because the word is out that I’m collaborating with a friend, or maybe they learned that I once pulled on a puppy’s tail when I was 4. My account seems to be working fine though.

  357. David


    Glad to know I’m not the only one with an addiction to this forum…I find it all quite exciting. It’s a great break from changing diapers and going to work!

  358. Brenda

    I shop in The Woodlands all the time…I live in Huntsville and there aren’t many options….no crowds or traffic though! My sister and parents live in The Woodlands. It’s about 45 mins south of me but work takes us there frequently so it’s not out of the way. To give you some idea, Huntsville is FINALLY getting a Target store. I’m giddy with anticipation ; )

  359. Brenda

    Oh and where are you Lee?

  360. moz

    It seems you wanted to make this contest all about skill, but that’s not possible, contestants also have to be lucky.

    To get very low scores on round 2:
    Earth = skill
    Air = perfection/luck
    Fire = Some methods can be used to “crack the code” but when you get to the point where you know what the last two numbers are but not the position it’s all about chance. And those 14 points can make you loose the prize.
    Water = skill

    You should give prizes to the people with the best scores after the Country Winner, it could be the first 20, a score range or the ones that took the least amount of days to submit a final score on each puzzle. The prize could be something like tickets for the movie premiere at a local movie theater.

    After the contest is over please post the lowest possible scores for each level and a list of the best scores, if we don’t win at least we can brag a little about our rank lol

  361. Lee11

    Santa Barbara, California

  362. Lee11

    Brenda – I don’t have a Target either. LOL

  363. David


    How did you get 387? I still can’t seem to beat 393. I assume it’s the same screen (just the ball, a box above it, and the door above the box). I get 393 by going around the right side of the box…working on the left side doesn’t work as well.

  364. moz

    Is it possible to get the same low score solving any version of the puzzles?

  365. steve in k.c.

    The Saint Peter’s photosynth is already active I believe. I am trying to figure out how that braclet thing that appears actually works as a map. If anyone else already knows, feel free to share. I think the ambigram is going to be a diamond shape of the first 4, like in the book.

  366. Canuckgirl

    The air one is still killing me. I’ve been practising like a loon and the lowest I can get on level 3 air is 678

  367. Canuckgirl

    OH…PS. Good luck to all. This has been fun. Rome is probably the most amazing place I’ve ever been. I’ve even been to the Scavi where St. Peter’s bones are and did the Angels and Demons tour a few years back.

    I’m not really doing the contest to win but I would give anything to go back again.

  368. Brandon

    @ moz,

    I am 100% sure that some puzzles have much higher lowest possible scores than others. Water is a great example. Some of the easier water 3 have a minimum score of 55, while one has a 38 (pretty sure that’s the lowest). Earth is the same way, but it’s a little closer, I think

    Also, I think the local movie premier tickets idea is great. Unfortunately, I think they already made their budget for this contest and I expect them to stick with it. It does kinda suck that there really isn’t any kind of consolation prize mentioned. A bunch of us worked really hard (to get something for nothing).

    @ Eugene,
    Why is your web angry? Did someone knock it down with a broom?

  369. Mr.Conductor

    i wonder if theres a place you could go to see a list of all the scores obtained by contestants. Also it would be great if there was some way to find out the absolute lowest possible scores per puzzle.

  370. Brandon

    @ Mr. Conductor,

    This is the closest thing you’re going to find unless the good admins decide to share with us (if they even know).

  371. ocubermensch

    zomg 20 mins till new round~

  372. Kurt

    @ Mr. Conductor
    I would sure be nice if they’d post all lowest possible scores once the contest finishes, but I doubt it’ll happen.

    @ Brandon
    It HAS to be known what the lowest scores are and it’s most likely a team of computer programmers/engineers. But will they reveal the full extenet of their accomplishments? I doubt it.

    @ Everyone
    Does anyone find this odd:

    “Remember, if you have the lowest combined score from Round One and Round Two, you will become the potential country winner, and will receive a trip for two to Rome to attend the premiere of Angels & Demons and more.”

    Lowest score = POTENTIAL country winner

    They’ll definitely do some sort of investigation to make sure you didn’t “cheat.”


  373. Steve

    The POTENTIAL part could refer to varing laws in different jurisdictions. Here, in Canada, to win you will have to answer a skill testing question to receive the prize, mess that up and no win. 16 celcius today, the only plus side to global warming

  374. Shayna

    So I just tried to start round 2 and it’s still posting the message that the round starts on March 6th @ 10am. Well, it’s 12:53pm on March6th. Where’s round 2?!

  375. Steve

    10 am Pacific Time

  376. casey

    @ Shayna

    That is 10 AM PST.

  377. Lee11

    I just saw the final puzzles, and then I went and hid under my blanket!

  378. Shayna

    ahhhhh, it would have helped if i read the whole reminder e-mail. lol

  379. Brandon

    @ Lee,

    How did you see them without doing them?

    Is it like a level 4 (harder than level 3)?

    That’s what I was hoping for.

  380. Lee11

    It just shows 4 FINAL PUZZLES to click on – practice puzzles are gone.

  381. Kurt

    @ Brandon

    I completely agree. While I was hoping (for my sanity) that they’d be like level 3, a part of me was always hoping that I’d open them and they’d be just insane!

    @ Lee

    Second to Brandon’s response, how did you see ’em?


  382. ocubermensch

    be careful wut u say u c how brandon is fishing for info man f u bro

    if u want a chance of winning i wouldnt post anything regarding puzzles, except photosynth related stuff but whatever if u wanan give people free stuff

  383. steve in k.c.

    @ Lee11, “I just saw the final puzzles, and then I went and hid under my blanket!”

    That really did make me LOL…touche’.

  384. Lee11

    F u? I’m really hoping that doesn’t mean what it obviously means. That’s not cool!

  385. Mr.Conductor

    Well if anyone on this board makes it to Rome, send me a postcard.

    Earth 1:……156
    Air 1:………..4355
    Fire 1:………225
    Water 1:…..114
    Total 1:……4850

    Earth 2:……65
    Air 2:………..1574
    Fire 2:………198
    Water 2:…..151
    Total 2:…….1988
    Grand Total: 6838

  386. Lee11

    I don’t know whether it’s better to have a beer to keep my hands from shaking uncontrollably when I play or if that will just end up making me too stupid to play at all?!

  387. msiiiart22

    Just Scored 260 For Fire, Only 476 for Canada.

  388. Kurt

    @ Mr.Conductor

    You’re going to have to post an address if you want a postcard. haha. Definitely seems like Round 2’s gonna’ make this a LONG weekend.

  389. Canuckgirl

    I got 54 on Earth. Air is once again freaking killing me!!
    Canada here too msiiart

  390. Lee11

    Mr. Conductor – you are sooooo brave jumpin in there – I can hardly bring myself to log myself in there again! Good Job!

  391. Brandon

    Of course I’m fishing for information! I’m not sure what difference it could make knowing the level of difficulty. It’s not like I’m asking everyone to post their entire solutions on this board, though I would appreciate it if they did.

    I love the spirited discussion. 😉

  392. Kurt

    @ Lee11 (and Mr.Conductor)

    I think by the end of this, we’re going to realize that Mr.Conductor had it right from the beginning; “I’m not gonna’ win, so just have fun and get it over with – don’t let it eat at me.”

    Congrats Mr.Conductor. You were the FIRST to finish the POI Contest. You get that title at least!


  393. Brandon

    are they harder than level 3?

  394. steve in k.c.

    You don’t know what touche’ means, look it up. Fu back.

  395. Mark

    Round 2 – 2075
    Total – 5080

  396. Lee11

    Steve – not u – did u see what ocubermensch said to Brandon?

  397. Mark

    Earth – 50
    Air – 1818
    Fire – 125
    Water – 82

  398. Kurt

    @ Mark

    Good job!

    @ Brandon

    Aren’t we all?! Haha


  399. Brandon

    you guys are cracking me up.

  400. Lee11

    Ya, I was just trying to say that I hope Ocubermensch didn’t mean what it looked like he meant because there’s no reason to talk to anyone here that way!

  401. Brandon

    @ Mark

    You’re the low scorer for now. Congrats.

  402. Carol

    I am working on the Water puzzle and the direction arrows are not responding. Is anyone else having this problem.I have not had this problem before – in practice or in sample Water puzzles.
    My computer may go to sleep if I leave the screen idle for too long and then I don’t know what will happen to my attempt at Water.

  403. Carol

    And then the arrows worked. What’s up?

  404. Summer

    Just finished:
    Round 1-3497
    Round 2 total-3349
    Grand total- 6783

    @Mark- Congrats you beat me.

    Good luck to everyone else! Air killed me (again).

  405. hogie

    Just finished rd2. rd 1 scores were way off, but total for both was like10,000. Oh well, really enjoyed it all. Good luck everyone.

  406. Canuckgirl

    My son just finished his second round

    Fire- 105
    Water – 114 (he screwed up)
    Air – 1772

    Total round 2 for son: 2045
    Round one??? welll….not so hot at 6605.

    My turn

  407. msiiiart22

    Round 1 – 5686
    Round 2 – 2453

    Total – 8139

    Not great but let’s hope it is enough to qualify for Canada. It’s been fun.

  408. Canuckgirl

    I want to know why my son got a wayyyy easier air than I did.

    So far for me
    Fire: 70
    Earth :52

  409. replay

    For those of us that did not receive the reminder message, would someone PLEASE post what it said?

  410. Summer

    @ Canuckgirl- I was wondering how in the world your son managed with a 1772! My air was ridiculously hard too!

  411. Andrea

    total for both rounds:4315

  412. Rita J

    I did the second round.
    I messed up Fire and air.
    Earth 83
    Air 2307 (8-(
    Fire 802
    Water 97
    Totals for both 6992

    Fun doing the puzzles!

  413. Brandon

    Congrats Andrea,

    You’re in the lead of those who have posted. That looks like a really good score from what I’ve seen here. That might hold up for a while. Air definitely looks like the game changer as predicted.

    Anyone mind saying whether fire is still 6 digits using 1-8 or if it’s something else this time?

  414. j15bell

    I have left several comments but they are not showing up. Hopefully I did something right this time. 🙂

    You can view the puzzles then click the return to puzzles link at the bottom left of the screen. That way you can choose which puzzle you WANT to play.

    I have also posted some pics of the puzzles over at Tweleve.org.

    You can view comments there without registering. But if you want to view pics you need to register. Here is a link to register: http://tweleve.org/index.php?referrerid=26946

    Good luck to everyone. I personally am going to wait to play.

    I just wonder if you are in the middle of a puzzle and screw up if you can click that return to puzzles link?

  415. Andrea

    Yes, fire is still the same

  416. casey

    @ replay

    A copy of the Email has been posted at the top of this page.
    It is highlighted in beige.

  417. jake

    After i did second round it didn’t let me know what was going to happen next. Do i just wait now for them to anounce it when game is over?

  418. replay

    @ casey

    Thanks casey! I’ve just been refreshing the page for new comments and didn’t think to go back to the top. :-}

  419. Daniel Nasserian


    We have crossed the 400 post mark and wanted to know from all of you if you are OK posting here or would you like us to create a forum for this topic to avoid confusion?

    Email me at angryweb@gmail.com and let me know!

  420. j15bell

    [quote: We have crossed the 400 post mark and wanted to know from all of you if you are OK posting here or would you like us to create a forum for this topic to avoid confusion?

    Email me at angryweb@gmail.com and let me know!]

    Will all the posts still show up like they are now. Or will we have two places to see all the posts?

  421. Canuckgirl

    My scores:

    Earth: 55
    Air: 2184 (which seriously stinks considering the puzzle my son got…hmpf)
    Fire: 70
    Water: 92

    Total Round 2: 2403 🙁

  422. steve in k.c.

    My bad, Lee11. It’s all good.

  423. steve in k.c.

    No reason to be “cloak and dagger” (pun intended) about info, because by next week it will all be general knowledge. Whoever wins is gonna have hellof taxes to pay, anyway.

  424. steve in k.c.

    I like posting here, for the record. Not broke…don’t fix.

  425. steve in k.c.

    Oh, I remember way back when I was post 95. Those were the days…

  426. Mr.Conductor

    @Lee11: Thank you for acknowledging my “bravery” for jumping in. Bravery comes in many forms, and it just depends on the person. For instance, bravery for me came in liquid form and appeared in front of me taking the form of a brown bottle, and beside it, a small glass capable of holding one liquid ounce.

    And to any people who think that getting the answers from a posting site is “cheating” by others showing or telling how to solve the puzzle(s) along with the photosynths, its not. I believe in today’s world, the word “cheating” has less of a stigma on it and has evolved into “advanced forms of teamwork” and everone who posted on this site should be considered teammates.

    With that being said, I wish to thank all of you who have helped their fellow teammates get through these past nervewracking weeks and I, personally, could’nt have done it without you all as well.

    Good luck to everyone!!

  427. replay

    please keep posts here

  428. j15bell

    I like teamwork as well.

    I have found at least three puzzles for each level (Earth, Air, Fire and Water). Taking screen shots of them and posting them here: **NO LINKS TO EXTERNAL SITES**

    I only have a few there but will be updating them later tonight. Remember we all have until next week to play these puzzles.

    Has anyone started a puzzle, didn’t like how it was going and clicked the return to puzzles feature?


  429. NJKen

    Well I just got done with round 2…Not as good as I hoped it would be. Looks like no Rome for me either

    Round 1: 3676
    Round 2: 2288
    Total: 5964

  430. Brandon

    No Rome but it was fun, wasn’t it?

  431. Brenda

    Watching a documentary about the Titanic at the moment. At least losing the contest is not as bad as being stuck at the bottom of the ocean for all eternity…though it may feel like it at first. And NO, I haven’t taken the time to do the puzzles yet ! I’m dreading that feeling myself and procrastinating-not in the interest of cheating, just plain fear of the unknown. Wish I felt more confident, but I am really dreading AIR. Funny, I don’t usually suffer from air sickness : )

    btw posting here is great, thanks for asking

  432. KobeF

    So far..
    Round 1 – 3121

    and Round 2-

    Fire – 79
    Water -69

    I just have that feeling Air will screw me over…

  433. Jeremy

    Total score 4734. im from canada tho

  434. Canuckgirl's husband

    Round 2
    Air: 1202 (, wife is not amused)
    Earth: 57 (should have done better)
    Fire: 105

    Total Round two: 1442 (I’m pretty proud of that number)

    Too bad I sucked so badly in round one bringing my total to 5398

  435. KobeF

    Ok just finished

    Earth – 59
    Air – 1019

    Total – 4347

  436. Canuckgirl

    Great job on Air Kobe!! WOW. I’m seriously annoyed with my luck of the draw there over husband and son.

  437. Brandon

    Looks like you could be in lead in Canada, Jeremy. Canuckgirl may be close in that range too. I don’t think she’s said what her round one score was.

    Good luck, eh

  438. Adam

    OK –

    You can quit a game and your score starts over. But it seems that you get the same game until you close down the website and come back in, and then you can get a new (possibly easier) puzzle. Wish I’d known that before I got my air score. Oh well.

  439. Kurt

    @ Adam (and others)

    So wait! You can hit the return button, or even close down the browser and it allows you to come back, sign back in and restart?, even on a new puzzle?!

    I figured they couldn’t block that option.

    @ Canuckgirl’s husband

    Awesome scores!


  440. Lee11

    I’m so discouraged. I thought that meant one attempt (no matter what) and I got a super lame air puzzle. And I have tried like hell to figure out an algorithm and I can’t. I don’t know how so many people are getting – like 70’s their only attempt.

  441. Dede

    I thought you only got one try too (haven’t dared to begin yet). So it’s only when you actually complete a puzzle, lousy score or not, that it automatically records that score and shuts you out?
    Also — what about the photosynth?
    There are some really great scores posted here. Congrats!

  442. Lee11

    an algorithm for fire that is!

  443. Kurt

    @ j15bell

    I’ve tried to find the screen shots you said you posted on twelve.org, but am unable to locate them.


  444. Canuckgirl

    Oh Brandon. Jeremy has nothing to worry from me. My first scores stunk too. I think my final tally was close to 6000. Hubby whooped my butt with his final air score. I didn’t find this place until after I finally finished the air section of phase one and didn’t realize you could even get such low scores. I’ve been practising though.

    BTW…Logging in and out of the browser did nothing to change my air puzzle. I had the triangle of starbombs, a wall, it was a nightmare. Darling husband had pretty much a straight line and only a few scattered bombs. I was not amused (he is right).

    Lee…seriously, my 70 score in fire was by pure luck.
    This was alot of fun!!

  445. Kurt

    @ Lee11

    Here’s the problem with attempting to back-calculate (per se) an algorithm for Fire:

    If the makers of the contest were smart, they would set up the entire contest to run from one central point (as opposed to treating each computer a player is using as one point). If the computer you’re using Lee11 was a separate point (from which the algorithm was originally working), then you could figure it out. However, if they set it up so that the algorithm is being accessed centrally from all computers playing at one moment, then you’d have no chance to figure it out (unless you were the only person playing at one time, which they help avoid by making the contest international).

    Believe me, I gave a lot of thought to attempting to configure the algorithm too, but decided it would be useless. Good luck if you continue though (ya’ never know!)


  446. j15bell


    It is my understanding that you need to register to view pictures on the forum. I listed the link to register above but will do so again. It is free to register.


    There is a thread dedicated to the game:


    The first pics should be on pages 11 & 12. I was able to get back on the internet just a few mins ago and am working on getting screen shots of every puzzle that I can find. I will post screenshots of each one I find.

    Hope that helps.


  447. j15bell

    sorry Kurt. I guess external links are not allowed here. too bad! thought the team work and showing screen shots where they can be posted would help us all.
    I can be contacted via email. j15bell@aol.com

  448. Daniel Nasserian




  449. Daniel Nasserian


    If you would like to display images, please contact me and I will post them here.

  450. j15bell

    Daniel Nasserian,

    Again. Sorry.
    That site could NEVER be regarded spam. It is a very respected site.

    I am merely trying to be a part of a community discussing this game. And will continue to do so at the other site. Thank you for the clarification of rules that I didn’t know existed.

    Thank you for the heads up that images can be posted on here.

    Good luck to all that are playing.


  451. casey

    @ Lee11

    Just wanted you (and others concerned about not getting the Email yesterday) to know I received this very gracious (and quick) response from ePrize customer service.

    “Thank you for contacting us regarding the Angels and Demons Path of iIllumination Contest. Your question is very important to us.

    We appreciate you bringing this to our attention. We have looked into the matter and found that you did qualify for the next round. We have made the appropriate corrections, and you can go ahead and participate tomorrow in the second round.

    We apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your patience.”

  452. Lee11

    Are other people finding that if they log out before submitting a score that they get a new air puzzle? Or is it like Canuckgirl said and you have a puzzle basically assigned to you no matter how many times you log out?

  453. j15bell

    I have clicked to play a puzzle, then clicked on the “return to puzzles” link at the lower left. When I clicked on a puzzle to play again I got a new puzzle.

  454. Lee11

    Thanks Casey!

  455. Kurt

    @ j15bell

    That’s both amazing and horrible.

    Amazing: we get to PRACTICE!!

    Horrible: There goes my weekend!!


  456. Lee11

    What does it mean in the rules where it says use of script, macro, or automated system is prohibited?

  457. Steve


    There goes my weekend too, and well done to all my fellow Canadians!

  458. j15bell

    @ Lee11,
    Good question. I don’t know.

    I will post that over at Tweleve.org and see if I get an answer.

    I found four different EARTH puzzles so far. Some are prickly!!

  459. steve in k.c.

    Looks like a sub4000 total is going to be needed to have a chance.

  460. Brenda

    @ steve

    Have you seen 4000?

  461. j15bell

    @ Lee11,

    Here is the answer I got from a fellow Twelever:

    They are usually automated tasks/programs that once you start that require as little input from the user to accomplish something.

    That’s usually in place to prevent computers making move decisions for you. As long as you are pressing the mouse or keyboard button to move the ball/block/flame then you are in the clear.

  462. steve in k.c.

    I got 4153 on my girlfriend’s account, but first round was particularly high on the air part. My personal one is much lower, so I imagine I can come in just under 4000. Some of these cats on here, though, have 1st round scores 200-300 lower than mine. I’m going to do all but air and save it for last.

  463. Victoria

    Round 1:
    Earth- 87
    Air- 2328
    Fire- 241
    Water- 122
    Total: 2778

    Round 2:
    Earth- 54
    Air- 1285
    Fire- 80
    Water- 77
    Total: 1496

    Final Score: 4274

  464. Kurt

    @ j15bell
    “Prickly”? Haha

    @ Steve
    Sub 4000 total?! Uh-oh. That gives me 1500 tops as a goal for Round 2. I think I agree…Air will be last, but I probably won’t “submit” anything ’till thursday anyways.

    *sigh* All for Rome!


  465. Sylvia

    What seems to be the lowest scores possible? It sucks that we can only get one try.

  466. Brandon

    Victoria has the number one score posted so far!

    Congrats, V!

  467. Gerbzilla

    well, didn’t get sub 4k, but got close.
    Round 1
    Earth – 107
    Air – 2233
    Fire – 212
    Water – 112
    Total – 2664

    Round 2
    Earth – 53
    Air – 1067
    Fire – 197
    Water – 67
    Total – 1384

    Grand Total – 4048

  468. Brandon

    Nicely done, Gerbie

    You take the top spot!

  469. Brandon

    Where you from, Gerb?

  470. Gerbzilla

    I’m near Atlanta, GA, USA.

    On a side note, has anyone seen any other forums/boards/etc. where people have been posting scores, experiences, and what not. So far this is the only one I’ve found.

  471. Annie

    Well, I fell off the water thing twice because apparently their direction of forward was different from mine LOL.

  472. steve in k.c.

    I’m going to revise my prediction of what it will take to win. I think it will be in the 3400-3500 range. For myself I see a possible 3650, but I won’t be able to squeeze out those extra 200 points I wasted on Air in first round.

  473. Annie

    Gerbzilla – which air puzzle did you do in round 2? All of them looked bad.

    Something to make you guys go hmmmmm. (not you Gerbzilla LOL)

    I was looking at the low round 1 scores that were posted for air and they don’t seem to be humanly possible. Think about it. (now I don’t know much about computers, so correct me if I’m wrong) Ok, the screen is generally 800 x 600 pixels. In the air round, you score 1 point per pixel that the ball moved PLUS 100 points per each air used. So, if you used 3 airs – that is 300 points before the ball even starts to move. In round 3, you needed at least 3 airs for for the puzzle. With the hole being clear across the other side of the screen on most of the puzzles, that is about 600 pixels away. The numbers don’t add up. Even if you did the one with the ball and the hole in the upper left corner, you need to get to the key then come back again, plus you need to use some winds to do all that. To get to the key would be about 300-400 pixels then they need to get back again. That’s at least 600 pixels with out any winds! So either they used a computer program to play the game or they are full of BS and are trying to psych the rest of us out.

    I hope the cheaters are caught and the rest of us who didn’t cheat will have a fair shot at winning this thing.

  474. Mr.Conductor

    I think the LOWEST POSSIBLE score for Fire would be a 10 for any puzzle, level 1 OR 2. But for that to happen would mean all flames must be on the lowest level (so you dont have to move the slider) and all inline. Therefore all you would have to do is just hit submit. Then again, what are the odds of that happening?

    Did I confuse anyone with what I just said? If I did, im sorry. I just realized on my 4th cup of strong coffee and feeling kinda jittery right now and I cant help myself from rambling on and on and on and on and on and…..GAH!!!!

  475. annie

    I wrote a long post on here and it didn’t show up. Oh well. I don’t feel like doing it again.

    Mainly what it said was that it doesn’t seem humanly possible to get such low round 1 air scores given that the screen is 800×600 pixels and they scored 1 point for every pixel that the ball moved plus 100 points for every air used.

    I just hope the cheaters are caught and the rest of us who didn’t cheat will get a fair shot at winning this.

  476. annie

    Oh, sorry … it just showed up. Don’t know why it didn’t show up the first time.

    Mr. Conductor

    The lowest score possible would be a 1 on fire. If you moved 1 slider and didn’t let go until until it was in the postion you wanted the score board would say 1 when you finally let go. Then if you hit submit and it happened to be correct, you scored a 1. If you needed another shot, they add on 10 points for being wrong, so the second least score would be a 12.

  477. Mr.Conductor


    I saw your post, quite lengthy but I got what you said. Basically what your saying is, the smaller the computer screen, the smaller the score?

  478. steve in k.c.

    This will probably get me banned, but oh well. Did you know you can practice in round 2 as much as your little hearts desire? Even if you complete the puzzle? Yes, it’s true folks! The game does not stream from the main server. It downloads everything associated with that puzzle to you computer the instant you click on it. So, what you can do is click on E, A, F, or W and allow it to download, then switch off your internet connection. You can play as much as you want and the score will never be recorded. On Air, for instance, you could get your system set up for the lowest possible score that works, then switch your connection back on, reset your tiles and knock it out. “Why”, you might ask, am I doing this? Because I’m angry at whoever designed the Air puzzle. It required too much luck, and I blew it on my try before I knew how to beat the system. My total is going to come in around 3750 now because of that thing. Way too high to go anywhere, nonetheless Rome. 🙁

  479. Dede

    do you mean to just close down your browser or actually turn off your Wifi?
    Haven’t dared try Round 2 yet, but practice will help.

  480. newcomer

    Jeez, so many posts in one day! Don’t people have to work Fridays anymore? 🙂

    Round 2 has been a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT, in my opinion. It’s the exact same thing as Round 1! There you clicked on “Do not submit score” button, here you click on “Return to Puzzles”…that’s about it. I’m not in the running for any prize, but I thought it’d be fun to get just one attempt where people get to test whatever strategies they learned in Round 1. That way, those whose claim to low scores was that they sat in front of the computers for over a 100 hours would be weeded out. Instead, it turned out to be another slog.

    I believe that while the individual puzzles are very well thought out, the organizers dropped the ball on how they came together. At the end of this contest, the winner will have around 3400 points, 3000 of which will be from Air. Cutting down Air scores by a factor of 10 would’ve made this contest a good match-up of skill vs. persistence vs. logic. Very sad indeed…


  481. newcomer

    Steve in K.C.,

    Just read your post. Wonderful! Very smart of you to think of this and very nice of you to share. I’m super impressed! As you can tell from my prior post, I fully concur with your opinion of this contest as well. 🙂


  482. Annie

    Mr. Conductor

    I don’t think so. From what I understand, the basic screen is 800×600 pixels. So, who ever made the puzzle used this as a base. My screen happens to be 1024×768, but the measurements from the puzzle corresponded to the 800×600. For example. In round 1 there was a puzzle with the ball at the lower bottom of the screen and the hole on the lower right. Since the ball and hole were not on the very edges of the puzzle, the length between them was probably around 600 pixels (100 off each end), now you add on 1 wind at 100 points, you have 700 points before the ball even moves! Each little bounce the ball takes during its travels adds on pixels … so people claiming that they did that puzzle with 650 points are full of shit.

  483. Canuckgirl

    But Annie. I have seen screen shots of the solved air puzzles with the low scores. If I hadn’t seen them I never would have believed it myself. I hated Air too and got frustrated. I wish I’d figured out how to get the scores lower before I submitted round one but c’est la vie. What I didn’t like was the the variation of air puzzles on Round two. I thought my son had a really easy one in comparison to mine, then my husband’s came up and I was all…No friggen way!! His was simple.

    I was getting some really low scores on Air when I was just goofing around after submitting round one.

  484. j15bell

    @ Gerbzilla

    I have mentioned a place several times. Specifically here:
    j15bell, on March 6th, 2009 at 11:41 am said: so you should scroll up and find that.

    I am trying to collect screen shots of all the puzzles in round 2 and post them.


  485. j15bell

    and once I have found what I think are all the puzzles I will give that link to the admin here.

  486. j15bell

    OFF TOPIC*******

    Just an FYI. DST starts tomorrow. 2am 3/8/09

  487. Andrea


  488. steve in k.c.

    The only defence that I do have for the inclusion of Air is to help avoid a bunch of first place ties.

    BTW, Is there going to be a winner from Antarctica? I’m changing my country to there if so.

  489. j15bell

    daylight savings time. spring ahead on the clocks.

  490. Eugene Wong

    Re: j15bell

    Once you have that link, click on “Contact Us” at the top of the page, and we’ll make sure to post it up asap. Thanks.

    -Eugene, Editor-in-Chief

    Btw, has anyone figured out the point of the St. Peter’s Basilica Photosynth? Are we now looking for the 4-element ambigram now?

  491. j15bell

    will it be available to view to a contestant before they complete the puzzles. or can they try to find it before that?

  492. j15bell

    the ambigram

  493. Andrea

    do you even have to find it?

  494. Kurt

    @ j15bell

    Have you found any more than three Earth puzzles? I thought for some reason I heard there were four, but have been unable to pop up a fourth.


  495. casey

    The St. Peter’s photosynth was the one used for practice. I don’t think it is new.

  496. steve in k.c.

    Okay, I’m going to assume the throne of a brief leader.

    Rnd 1 2466
    Rnd 2 1262
    Combo 3728

    Air blows…literally.

  497. j15bell


    that is my first attempt to show the screen shots of the puzzles I have found so far. it is my first attempt at doing this photobucket thing.

    password is: tweleve

    yes it is spelled that way because that is the forum I kinda stick to.


  498. Kurt

    @ j15bell

    I have screen shots of two Earth puzzles you don’t have. I’ll send them to you via email.


  499. j15bell

    I have found:
    4 earth puzzles
    3 air puzzles
    1 fire
    1 water

  500. j15bell

    found another air puzzle too.

  501. Canuckgirl

    j15bell. In addition to the air puzzles you had screen shots for there were two more. Mine had like a pyramid of starbombs, and husbands was not on your screen screen shots either.

  502. Kurt

    @ j15bell

    My bad. I only had one extra Earth puzzle, but it’s still one you didn’t have. I sent it over to ya’.

    Looks like we might be working as a team to compile an inventory of puzzles, so I figure it’s easiest to stick with your photobucket site (no use confusing people with multiple sites).


  503. steve in k.c.

    @ j15bell, Air #2 is the one I used. Had it set up to get an 850ish score but barely missed the hole and then it banked in making my score 1052 before I could react. Actually, I did react, but the cancel button is slower than the ball.

  504. steve in k.c.

    Is this the longest AngryWeb comment board ever?

  505. steve in k.c.

    I have no idea what the St. Peter’s photosynth is about. I think its just pretty pictures for people to look at. I think I played through the whole thing and came to that conclusion. Maybe admin could throw us a bone here.

  506. steve in k.c.

    I like posting.

  507. Kurt

    @ Steve

    Congrats on the Round 2 score – that’s really good.

    What puzzle scores did you get for Round 2?


  508. steve in k.c.


    E 50
    A 1042
    F 103
    W 67

    I got the same E and W on 3 different accounts with girlfriend and brother, so I’m pretty sure those might be the lowest possible, but who knows. I was satisfied with Fire, because I have a new system I’m using for it, but it’s very complicated to explain. It still relies on the luck of the draw quite a bit. Air sucks and blows, as I’ve already mentioned.

  509. j15bell

    allrighty then. we have:
    5 earth
    5 air
    1 fire – pointless to look for more than one.
    1 water

  510. Eugene Wong

    Re: Steve in k.c.

    I believe it might actually be the longest. This article alone received over 1,300 hits the other day lol.

  511. Kurt

    @ Steve

    The lowest I can make out on Earth (thus far) is 38. I’d comment on the others, but I haven’t gone through anything but Earth yet.


  512. steve in k.c.

    Wow, I must be lazy on earth.

  513. j15bell

    5 earth
    6 air
    4 water

  514. Renee

    Air #2 was also giving me a lot of trouble…I thought I was going to get it the high 900’s but I can’t get it to go in the hole w/o adding another air….the only one I’ve completed so far is water-63.

  515. j15bell

    been busy trying to get these puzzles to randomly change. sometimes they just keep showing me the same ones.

    anyone compiled what the lowest score is for each level?

  516. Kurt

    Looks like the lowest reported (here at least) are:

    E – 38
    A – 1019
    F – 80
    W – 63
    Total = 1200

    Anyone know of anything lower?

    I believe the lowest thought for Round 1 was around 2050, so lowest contest total (thus far) might be 3250.


  517. j15bell

    spent too much time on this today. 🙂

    gotta go feed my family and finish the Tanga puzzles for today.

  518. Steve

    Just saw a fellow Canadian’s score
    round 1
    round 2
    E 65
    A 1107
    F 95
    W 74
    Sooo close to breaking 4000

  519. Estepha

    My totals were:
    Round 1
    E- 87 (17,31,39)
    A- 2111 (523, 710, 878)
    F- 198 (70, 24, 104) I accidently hit submit on 1st- argh!
    W- 92 (15, 30, 47)
    Total = 2488

    Round 2
    E- 43
    A- 980
    F- 96
    W- 63
    Total = 1182
    Combined total 3670

    I am sure that after seeing Kurt’s thread I have no chance. Oh well- it was fun anyways.

  520. Estepha

    Here are my husband’s totals:
    Round 1
    E- 93 (16,35,42)
    A- 2145 (510, 714, 921)
    F- 182 (12, 57 113)
    W- 93 (15, 30, 48)
    Total = 2513

    Round 2
    E- 40
    A- 976
    F- 78
    W- 63
    Total = 1157
    Grand total = 3670 Same score as me!

    I decided to post these because I have been searching and searching for scores, and I have not been able to find as many as I wanted to. So, I figure I’ll put both of ours out there and maybe more people will post there scores. Thanks to everyone who has already posted : )

  521. Brandon

    Great Scores Estepha, you’re in the lead

  522. Kurt

    @ Estepha

    Awesome scores! Wouldn’t it be great if you and your husband end up the top score – battling out a tie breaker for who wins (assuming you’d take each other to Rome respectively). Haha

    I have to ask, where did you pull out sub-1000 scores on Air. I’ve been trying the different puzzles all day and can’t seem to get below 1100 or so.

    As far as Earth, I’ve tried other puzzles and 38 still seems to be my lowest (it was on Earth Puzzle #15 according to j15bell’s photobucket listing). I’ll let ya’ know if I find anything else though.


  523. Kurt

    ** Correction **

    Earth Puzzle #5 (not 15)

  524. Estepha


    I am not sure what # “air” puzzle it was. It had two ledges separated in the middle of the screen with the starting point on the upper left and bombs in line with the ledges. There was one key to the upper right with the ending point just above it. My description probably doesn’t do it justice. I kept trying and trying and I could not break under 1300 until I found this puzzle. Good luck : )

  525. Kurt

    @ Estepha

    Thanks! It’s Air #2 (according to j15bell’s listing). We’ll see how long it takes for the contest to pop that one up for me (seems to be my limiting factor).

    But with 976 on Air and also 78 on Fire, we’ve got a new Round 2 lowest possible score of 1155 (and I’m sure it’ll keep going down).


  526. James

    Round 1 Total: 2119

    Round 2 Total: 1176

    Grand Total: 3295

    Air was a pain!

  527. Kurt

    @ James

    Well there goes my chance! Haha (unless I can manage Round 2 in under 850 total).

    Awesome job though!

    If you don’t mind saying, what were your puzzle scores?


  528. James

    Round 1:

    Earth=16, 26, 39 81
    Air= 394, 635, 844 1873
    Fire=1, 11, 68 80
    Water= 14, 31, 40 85

    Round 1 Total: 2119

    Round 2:
    Earth= 40

    Round 2 Total: 1176

    Grand Total: 3295

    After reading this post I noticed there are much lower scores than mine oh well! it was fun

  529. David

    James: I guarantee you are close to the top. By the time round 1 was nearing an end, I decided I would like to win, but don’t have enough free time. So I figured I would settle with a score close to the top:

    Round 1:
    Earth: 16, 26, 31 – 73
    Air: 399, 645, 843 – 1887
    Fire: 1, 56 (I was running out of time), 77 – 134
    Water: 14, 32, 40
    Total: 2180

    Round 2:
    Earth: 39
    Air: 952
    Fire: 90 (accidentally hit submit)
    Water: 63
    Total: 1144

    Grand Total: 3324

    After seeing James’ scores, I know I am not going to win. It was fun though. I despised air at first, but then I liked the logic behind it in the end. Fire was the level I hated most, because I was wanting to solve through logic, and Fire depended more on how much time you had to keep resubmitting. I don’t have that sort of time. 2111 was the easiest way to 1 on level 1, btw.

  530. Stacey

    OMG, i’m screwed! I got the email “congrats, you are one of 437 ppl from canada”, great i thought, that is, until i blew it. Oh well, i’ll have to find another way to Rome, :O(

    Or maybe i’ll get incredibly lucky and everyone else from here will do really bad 😉

    Good luck everyone

  531. Stacey

    PS….is there any way of finding your own ranking within your country?

  532. James

    @ David

    I know there much be a much lower total score out there because of all the much lower Air and Fire scores posted through these forums and blogs. Great Job are you in the US?

    I actually took about 2 weeks for all the puzzles combined

  533. David

    @ James

    I am in the US. Are you also? The super low scores posted as possible for Fire are for the most part unlikely, because the combinations are frequently changing, and to get a 1in level three appeared to be impossible (I never saw more than three in the 1 row at once). It appeared that you had to use logic and luck to solve that level. On Air, 799 may be possible on level 3 of round 1, but I seriously doubt more than a handful of people got there. I used a week to figure out the lowest scores I could find, and tried to give myself more time on fire in round 1, but in the end only had a few hours. Work has been BUSY! Great job on your end, too!

  534. Canuckgirl

    Just because I sucked overall in comparison…I want to feel good about something

    Has anyone beat my round two fire score yet of 70?

    I swear I thought I saw a 63 somewhere but not sure. (lie to me…make me feel better …. please…LOL)

  535. Kurt

    Since I have a better chance of making it to Rome via personal invite from the Pope, I’ll pass along another helpful point for those interested:

    Using Air Puzzle #2 (look up j15bell’s pictures) it’s possible to get sub-900 (I haven’t submitted anything, so I don’t know the exact value)


  536. David

    Canuckgirl: I don’t care what anyone says. You are the all-time supreme champion of Fire in round two!

  537. casey

    @ Canuckgirl

    I’ve been keeping track and you are still the fire champion!

  538. David


    I don’t doubt that at all. I only submitted 952 because the ball was moving too quickly at the end for me to stop the game. :o(

  539. David

    🙁 I mean

  540. Kurt

    @ David

    I think that’s going to be a point of hatred for a lot of people. Luckily I haven’t run into it yet, but I almost submitted an Earth puzzle earlier today cause I still had the habit of practicing in my head from Round 1. Soooo lucky my computer decided to take that moment to freeze for a bit (not like it really matters – no way I’m going to Rome).

    Is Round 2 just like Round 1 in that you can still play the puzzles once you finish? Maybe I should just submit ’em and get it over with.

    ~ Kurt

  541. Canuckgirl

    Woohoo!!! Thanks David and Casey!! (I still think it was a big combo of sheer luck as I literally did a random guess at the beginning of the puzzle, but I’ll take it!!) 😀

  542. Kurt

    @ Canuckgirl

    No being modest. That was Aaaaaaall skill.

  543. David


    It lets you play the round 1 puzzles again for fun, but once you are done with the puzzles on round two, it looks like there is no way to play them again.

    Going back to round one, I am remembering why I accepted 645. That puzzle is really hard to line up. If anyone wants to try, it was the one where the ball starts just above three keys. You have to get the ball going to the right and make it barely touch the first key before you shoot it off to the right using a total of three airs.


  544. David

    Not to the right! Get it going to the left and then to the right!

  545. Kurt

    @ David

    Aaahh! I guess I’ll just keep plugging away at Round 2 then.


  546. Kurt

    The Round 2 Earth puzzle where there are 8 blocks radiating out from the center at the start…

    Has anyone even solved that one? I have this eerie feeling that it’ll end up being the lowest score map for Earth, but I can’t even get the first key.

  547. David


    I was in position to solve that one for 40 or 41.


  548. Stacey

    canuck girl, since we are competing against eachother…what was your combined score? I’ll still be happy with winning the T.V!!!

  549. TBC


    For a sub 900 on Air Puzzle #2 are you able to jump the ball from one platform to the other only using one wind.

  550. Kurt

    @ David

    I was worried about that. I know there’s another puzzle I can get 38 on, but it’s pretty straight forward. This puzzle just seems so open to different gameplay that it seems so much more likely to have some hidden possible score of 20 or something.

    I finally got the first key, but I’m already up to 42 and still have one key left. And I’ll never remember what I did in order to repeat it. Aaaahh!

  551. Kurt

    @ TBC

    I used three winds on the puzzle. One before the first platform, one inbetween the two, and one after the second platform.


  552. TBC



    Don’t know how much of a difference it’ll make now but worth a try.

  553. Canuckgirl

    OH Stacey…You don’t have to worry about me overall!! LOL. My combined score is around 6000. I totally blew air on round 1. I’m pleased with my second round scores but I could not get the air puzzle to change to another one (and boy did I try)

    I went over to that place that j15 posted and it looks like we have been totally smoked by someone named Ace up here in Canadaland. Kudos to him.

    I had so much fun doing these though. Nice to have some challenges (logic puzzles). I found a puzzle place that looks like the water puzzles were based on. I’ve been playing it all night. If you google bloxorz you can find them if you feel like doing more watertype puzzles.

    Seriously though. If someone from this website wins the trip…Make sure you send a request to the Vatican to tour the SCAVI so you can see the necropolis under St. Peters. It was probably still the highlight of our trip. You literally can see what they suspect are the bones of St. Peter (as in the book). (it’s a little freaky that they are kind of in tupperware type containers..but that aside) It’s an incredible experience. Our guide was amazing, and there were only 5 of us allowed in per tour. I think they have loosened up the guidelines a bit to allow more people through now but I can realistically see more than 10 per tour given the space constraints down there. It truly is an experience though and you need to get permission from the Vatican, the contact info is on the Vatican’s website under Scavi (just don’t mention it’s because of the book or you’ll probably get refused. We were on our 2nd honeymoon so I used that in our request).

  554. Kurt

    @ TBC

    If you’re able to find a way to jump from the first platform to the second with only one wind (nothing inbetween), let me know! I tried for so long to position myself JUST RIGHT, but nothing got past that bomb on the edge of the second platform. If you’re able to though, I’m sure you could cut down around 100, make it sub-800.


  555. Stacey

    Canuck girl, you’ve beat me!!! I had a combined of 5526! Maybe i’ll have better luck with rrrrroll up the rrrrrimm. 🙂 What was the website that was posted, do you still have it?

  556. Kurt

    @ Canuckgirl

    That’s so cool you were able to use your second honeymoon as a bargaining chip to see the SCAVI.

    And I completely agree – if someone on this forum wins the contest, PLEASE post it. It’d be cool to know that we all helped; in a way, we would all win.

    @ Eugene

    The password to j15bell’s photobucket link is “tweleve,” not “tewelve.”

  557. Kurt

    @ Stacey

    The link is posted at the very top of the page.

    And the password is “tweleve” with that extra ‘e’

  558. Canuckgirl

    Actually Kurt, It was technically our 1st honeymoon as we had never really taken one (a weekend in NY on our 5th was the closest thing to a honeymoon we had). We just couldn’t afford it. So after 4 kids, and 15 years of marriage, we finally got our real honeymoon. It was spectacular. I would go back in a heartbeat and if I had my way we’d retire in Florence. (it’ll never happen but oh, to dream!!)

    G’night all…don’t forget to reset your clocks tonight!!!!

  559. TBC


    Yeah I’ve been trying to make that elusive jump for a couple of hours now but still no joy, not sure if its possible but I’ll let you know if I make it.

  560. David


    I thought I had figured out a way to get between 30 and 35 on that puzzle when I got to the 40 or 41. The least number of moves getting to the keys will put you in a place where you have to decide which to go for first, as each one will be easy to get to then.


  561. Justin

    Round 1

    E- 85 (17, 32, 36)
    A- 2176 (446, 792, 938)
    F- 113 (38, 28, 47)
    W- 86 (14, 30, 42)

    Round 2

    E- 41
    A- 1250
    F- 64
    W- 63


  562. Puzzled

    I managed to get 42 on Fire for round two. Believe me, I was surprised to get it. I did pretty well on round 1 for Fire as well. But no threat of winning a trip to Rome. I had a hard time with the Air puzzles. I tried over and over, even after posting my scores and couldn’t get near the posted low scores.

    Round 1

    E – 101 (31,38,32)
    A – 2411 (644,844,923)
    F – 143 (24,26,93)
    W – 92 (14,30,48)

    Round 2

    E – 53
    A – 1024
    F – 42
    W – 63

    Total 3929

  563. Ellen

    Can someone please help on the St Peter’s photosynth? We have been done with the puzzles and are stuck on this last photosynth. We have found, in brown lettering, 2 earths, 1 water, air, fire, & illuminati, and a red letter C. We are trying to get the system to accept that we have found them, seen them, and want to complete this nerve racking game!!!

  564. steve in k.c.

    Ellen, I’m not sure if the St. Peter’s phsynth is required. I think it’s only meant for entertainment. Of course, I never read rules either.

  565. casey

    @ Ellen

    The St. Peter’s photosynth has always been there to be used for practice only. It is not part of the the final round.

  566. Kurt

    @ David

    Haha. There goes MORE time. Now I’m going to be determined to get that puzzle figured out.

    @ Justin

    Nice job!

    @ Puzzled

    Awesome Fire score!

    @ Canuckgirl

    I can definitely understand that. I’m glad to hear you did eventually get to take the “official” honeymoon. And you never know, Florence may be more within your reach than you think. Anything’s possible.


  567. Elaine

    if St peter photosynth is not part of the game why is there earth, fire etc in the pics, how do you get them to accept when you find them as nothing tells you that they have been found?

  568. casey

    @ Elaine

    It was just used to practice using Photosynth and what the symbols would look like if you found them. You never could actually enter them as found.

  569. steve in k.c.

    Elaine, where did you find those? Can you describe where they are, or your process?

  570. Elaine

    thanks for that casey and to steve, if you look on top of the dome with the gold ball on top, the fire symbol is on there, I think it is just below the people or overhead in black lettering

  571. Elaine

    is there a photosynth puzzle for round two, as the puzzles are the same as round one again. Don’t understand the point of that! PUZZLED!!

  572. steve in k.c.

    It IS there, Elaine. How weird? Maybe it’s for tie breaker.

  573. Carl

    Well I thought I’d throw my hat into the ring.

    Round 1

    E – 73 (16, 26, 31)
    A – 1933 (416, 710, 807)
    F – 64 (1, 12, 51)
    W – 86 (14, 30, 42)
    Total – 2156

    Round 2

    E – 38
    A – 945
    F – 51
    W – 63
    Total – 1097

    Grand Total – 3253

    I doubt I’ll win because I wasn’t as sharp in Round 1 Air (all 3 levels) as I should’ve been. The contest was very enjoyable though.

    @ Everyone
    I haven’t been able to figure out the lowest possible scores for Round 1 Earth (all 3 levels), or Round 1 Water (level 3). Apparently the best scores are 15, 20, 30, and 38 respectively. If anyone is so inclined I’d love to see those move sequences. Thanks!

    @ Kurt
    I tried like hell to get the ball into the exit on Round 2 Air #2 by just using 3 tiles, but I couldn’t quite do it. The trail of the ball would skirt the edge of the exit oh so tantalizingly close it was excruciating to watch! If you’re able to pull that off I tip my hat off to you.

    Good luck to those of you still playing!

  574. replay

    Uuurgh. I feel so stupid. I have tried **forever** to get even close to the 38 for Earth #5 – just cannot do it. I hate that I’m missing something obvious.

  575. Brandon

    Wow Carl, Great job! You from US? That’s a tough score to beat!

    Looks like the low water score wasn’t hard to find. I’ve seen a whole bunch of 63s

  576. Ellen

    Thanks for clearing this up! I had never seen St Peter’s photosynth before until after I had done the others. I guess we just didn’t notice.
    But for those looking, Illuminati is on the obelisk on the left of the pair you will see. Fire is on the dome below the spire. Earth is by the clock on the right (on the lower left side) and again on the left in the same area. Air is on the columned building, pitched structure under the Latin word that starts BVRGH etc. Water is on the shield of 5 tablet looking items in between the area where both Earths are located. And use the slide show feature and you will be directed to a white star on a statue and it will light up a red C, as well as take you to all the elements, all in brown.
    Now we can enjoy our weekend because we are finished. Our scores aren’t as low as what I’ve read here, but we’re happy we played and finished!! We knew going in we weren’t going to be in the top 100, (or 1000) never mind the best score in the U.S. But good luck for the person who does and kick some butt for the rest of us!!

  577. Carl

    @ Brandon

    Ann Arbor, MI. Yes, the water puzzles seemed pretty straight forward. Have you submitted any Round 2 scores yet?

  578. Kurt

    @ Everyone

    I found a seventh Air puzzle. And as Air always seems to have something up it’s sleeve, you can get sub-800 on this one (4 winds).

    I’ll send it to j15bell soon so you can look at it.


  579. Kurt

    @ Everyone

    I just completed the Air with 741 and it popped back to the main screen in “PRACTICE MODE”

    What the heck is that?!

  580. casey

    @ Kurt

    I think you accidentally signed into the practice mode section of the game. I think there are really only 6 air puzzles and you are maybe doing Practice Air. It would be easy to make this mistake because the start screens where you pick which puzzle you want to do look exactly alike. Could this be what happened?

  581. Kurt

    Ok. I’ve redirected the site, signed out, closed the browser…anything short of turning the computer off and it still has me in PRACTICE MODE. Still only four puzzles, so it’s definitely still Round 2. Maybe I unlocked practice mode by getting a ridiculous Air score? Haha (wishful thinking.)

    Anyways, while we (or maybe only I) wait for this to be figured out, here’s the new lowest score tally:

    E – 38 (Carl finally was able to find it, good job)
    A – 741
    F – 42 (awesome job Puzzled)
    W – 63 (seems everyone’s found it)
    Total = 884

    With Round 1 lowest around 2050, that puts the combined total around 2934 (BELOW 3000!!!)


  582. Justin

    Thats the practice mode puzzle if it has two walls on both sides and a bomb and key in the middle and you just have to swing the ball from the left to the right side through the key with 4 tiles. I remember getting around a 750 on that too

  583. Steve

    Hi everyone from the Great White North (well more like dull grey), just finished the thing, here are my scores, looks like I won’t be leaving North America for a while
    Round 1
    E 90
    A 2137
    F 118
    W 98
    Round 2
    E 38
    A 955
    F 87
    W 67
    Oh well, it was fun, off to the LCBO!

  584. Kurt

    @ Justin

    How the heck do I get out of practice mode?

  585. Justin

    at the top bar click on contest, then solve the puzzles

  586. Kurt

    @ Justin

    Funny how it works once you tell me, but not the multiple times before. Oh-well. Thanks!

    I guess my dreams of 741 are false. Darn! I’ll have to settle for 870 or something.

  587. sunny

    Earth 38 Too c-s to do the others yet…

  588. Kurt

    @ Sunny

    What was your Round 1 score?

  589. Stacey

    Steve, you must be in SW ontario 😉 ….you’ve beat my score! Congrats. I’m just looking for the tv prize….

  590. sunny

    @ Kurt

    just over 2400, that’s why I’m not anxious to tackle the rest of them. Fire seems to be pure luck or psychic ability to get a score as low as those posted here, so I’m not ready to tackle that one yet…and air…. @!**&&** Need I say more???

  591. Steve

    @ Stacey

    In Stratford. Do you know any other low scores for Canada? Chin up, there is going to be that skill testing question! Anything can happen!

  592. TBC

    @ Kurt

    Have you actually managed to do the air puzzle in less than 900 yet. I’ve been trying with just the three tiles like you said but only seem to be able to get it to just miss the hole by about one pixel on Air Puzzle #2.

  593. Jax

    Round 1
    Earth: 16 – 29 – 32
    Air: 453 – 610 – 766
    Fire: 4 – 17 – 49
    Water: 16 – 34 – 46

    Total – 2073

    Round 2
    Earth – 39 – Actually wrote out this one on paper
    Air – 801 -My second best air score, I exited out after my other one which was about 17 points lower
    Fire – 42 – This puzzle happened purely by luck, i am so happy
    Water – 63 – Apparently there is a lower one
    Total = 945

    Grand Total- 3018

    Can anyone freaking break 3000, is it possible???
    I really hope I have a shot at this thing, but knowing that people are more obsessive than me at puzzles, i say my chances are at the bottom of the ocean…

  594. Stacey

    I’m in London, wow, talk about a small world!!! WIndy as hell tonight! Someone else on here said someone named ace is kicking some serious booty, but i really can’t confirm…

  595. Ghost Rider!!!

    [Round 1]
    Earth: 16 – 22 – 31 (69)
    Air: 392 (thought I had the record here but I saw a 389!! how the heck is that possible??? – 612 – 770 (1774)
    Fire: 1 – 11 – 50 (62)
    Water: 14- 31 – 43 (98)

    Total 4 Round 1= 1905
    [Round 2]

    Earth – (38) <———-is this the lowest possible?
    Air – (815) Greatjob to the person that got this record
    Fire – 33 [the solution was 88842] and after playing it over and over I noticed there was another one very similar 84882 that helped with this one!!!

    Water – 63 (Is there really a lower score then this???)
    Total = 949

    Grand Total: 1905 + 949= 2854 ROME HERE I COME! Well, if not then at least I am proud of myself! my brother came in about 100 points over mine, and my cousin was right in between us two… Good luck @ everyone

  596. sunny

    @ ghost rider

    where are you from so I can just give up now…

  597. David

    Some amazing scores being posted here. If they’re real, they’re very impressive. Congrats.

  598. David

    Ghost Rider,

    How did you manage to get 5 digit codes for fire? That would certainly give you the edge over the rest of us. 🙂

  599. FMLFML

    Ghost rider,

    can you post screen shot of your total score, use image shack for hosting its free..


  600. Ghost Rider!!!

    Edit—— Round 1 Score was 2003 and round 2 score was 949

    Grand Total= 2952

    ha ha I thought something looked wrong Sorry for the false alarm!

  601. David

    More than anything else, I’m just amazed at those spectacular scores for round 1 air. It’s as though there’s a totally different, out-of-the-box strategy that you must have used to achieve it. I know that many things seem impossible until you see it, and then you can appreciate it…but boy those scores seem impossible! I’ve been proven wrong so many times before though…

    Please share how you got those round 1 air scores!

  602. FMLFML

    Btw ghostrider, your round 1 total is 2003

  603. Ghost Rider!!!

    @ David lol I wish it was 888442 🙂

  604. Ghost Rider!!!

    @FM what is imageshak?

  605. FMLFML

    your round 1 score for water is 88 not 98

    can you take screen shot of your game screen please

    imageshack.us free image hosting post url there


  606. Lila

    Hmmm…something smells a little fishy. You’d think that someone who had dedicated their life to this contest would know their first round score like the back of their hand….and that someone who was trying to psych out the competition might add up fake numbers incorrectly and then need to add a new post to correct it.

  607. FMLFML

    Press “print screen” on your keyboard of your game screen that shows your score

    then paste it in paint, save, go to http://imageshack.us/

    upload it…

    and post URL here

    if your score is what you say it is, i’ll just quit now and save myself time

    thanks i really appreciate it

  608. steve in k.c.

    FMLFML, you need to chill. You sound like the gestapo. “Papers! Let me see your papers!!”

  609. Ghost Rider!!!

    David Air 1 was 392 I used 3 winds on the level with the exit directly above you (I don’t see how it is humanly possible to get anything better than that, but I see that someone got 389 that is out of sight!!!!!!

    Air 2 was the puzzle with the 3 keys on it

    Air 3 I really can’t remember which one it was (Jax had the best Air 2 and 3 scores for round 1 I don’t see how it was possible to get those WOW)

    Fire the code was 888442

  610. Ghost Rider!!!

    Water total IS 98 water 3 was 53

    @everyone I wouldn’t worry about my score, my friend just got a much lower one:) BTW I’m from the U.S.

    signing up for imageshack now thaks FM!

  611. Canuckgirl

    Holy Canolli…those scores!!!! I’m glad I’m not playing for Rome!! Amazing…I am in awe.

  612. David

    Please share more about your round 1 Air2 score. There’s a way to get 714 that barely touches the left key and then arcs through the others to the door. And then, incredibly, there’s a way to get 633 by positioning the second and third icons near the middle key, sucking the ball around the left key and rifling it towards the door. Every puzzle-loving bone in my body feels convinced that 633 is the most-efficient, optimal score for that board.

    Can you explain with specifics (or a screenshot of the puzzle just before completion) how even lower scores are possible? I didn’t believe 633 either before I saw it, so my incredulousness is not because I don’t believe you…only because I can’t wrap my head around it.

    This is fun.

  613. Ghost Rider!!!

    @lila I didn’t dedicate my life to this contest, I played it the first 4 days for round 1 and I’ve played it these couple days for round 2. I got in a hurry because I had already closed out my browser I simply mis-typed the beginning number of water 3’s total ( I did awful on that one) thus, is why my total score was OFF lol it should have been 2942 and someone else I know has 2822

  614. ocubermensch

    yeah seriously david i even calculated the minimum pixels required to travel for air 2 puzzle and i don’t see how a score lower than 633 is possible………

    also david this is not fun, i wasted a lot of time on this shit and i didnt even get close haha

    oh well at least i can go back to worrying about real shit now

  615. Lila

    I’m also a little skeptical of Jax’s scores, since there’s another forum about this contest where the most prominent poster is “Jaxs”. That poster has mediocre scores. Maybe it’s a different person, but still a notable coincidence.

    Jax and Ghost Rider – I promise to eat crow if proven wrong.

  616. Lee11

    Ghost Rider – ( any score under 3000 is serious) why on earth would someone so serious about this game and thinking they had a chance? Why would you and your friend submit your scores only 2 days into the final?

  617. Ghost Rider!!!


    Jax, on March 8th, 2009 at 4:34 pm Said:
    Round 1
    Earth: 16 – 29 – 32
    Air: 453 – [610] – [766]
    Fire: 4 – 17 – 49
    Water: 16 – 34 – 46

    Total – 2073

    Round 2
    Earth – 39 – Actually wrote out this one on paper
    Air – 801 -My second best air score, I exited out after my other one which was about 17 points lower
    Fire – 42 – This puzzle happened purely by luck, i am so happy
    Water – 63 – Apparently there is a lower one
    Total = 945 (beat me by 4 points!)

    Grand Total- 3018

    I certainly don’t have the record, (but I thought I did have) also I want to know how it is possible to get the 389 I cannot be below 392 I do have screen shots and even a u-tube video of Everything!!! but I will wait a few days to show them;) However, since round 1 is over I would like to see how the 389 is possible

  618. FMLFML

    yo ghostrider can you please at least post a screenshot of your round 1 score


  619. Ghost Rider!!!


    I don’t know about my friend but this weekend was the only time I could work on the puzzles I have to work all next week:(

  620. Lee11

    I hate to be one of those people who says “I don’t believe it”, but certain things don’t add up. If Ghostrider’s serious about the game, why would he submit scores after only 2 days of trying? Also, the friend who supposedly did better already must have already had better scores yet Ghostrider said Rome here I come? And 2 minutes into his posts he says ” Oh but don’t worry about my score because my friend just posted one” 120 pts. less? It makes no sense!

  621. David

    @Ghost Rider,

    Well sure, I’d be interested to hear how Jax got 610 just as much as how you got 612. If I saw one I’d believe the other.

    If I saw neither, well…

  622. Lee11

    Ok – that makes sense, sorry and congrats!

  623. Justin

    Hey, he could be like people on other forums that are posting way lower scores to throw other people off and get other people to give up now. Im not saying I dont believe his scores as all them see plausible. I just dont believe his friends score, as I curious to know how he shaved off an additional 120 pts.

  624. David


    I feel the same way. I usually get a bit annoyed at people who say “I don’t believe it”, because usually it’s just an inability to accept that others might have been more skilled or creative than oneself. I’ve been guilty of this plenty of times, so it’s usually best to give the benefit of the doubt.

    That said, my instinct says that all of you who still feel your scores are competitive…don’t give up. They might be more competitive than recent posts would lead you to believe.

  625. Elaine

    are there any photosynth puzzles that have not been found already for round 2

  626. David


    In an earlier post, you mentioned that you solved a round 2 air puzzle (the one we’re calling #2) using only three icons. Did you actually see this completed, or did it look like it could probably work given your arrangement?

    I ask because I was sure that I had it lined up, and the only way to be sure was to let it play out. After gathering the courage, I was surprised to see the ball go right past the door but not in it. It seems that a 3 icon solve on this level is the holy grail.

    Has anyone seen it done?

  627. FMLFML

    ey david wut u think of ghostrider’s scores, legit or not

  628. David


    I’d like to assume honesty in everyone. In this case, it would require simultaneously accepting that 1. multiple scores previously thought impossible are in fact possible, (and not just beating but shattering previous bests), 2. that someone with such extraordinary skill and scores would incorrectly state their first round score, 3. that they would have time to join the forum conversation but not time to experiment more in the coming days, and 4. that they would choose to announce the “score to beat” with four days to go.

    These are all possible, but that’s what would be required to accept the claims as true.

  629. sunny

    the agony of it all…I am going back to my original plan…do the best I can and not give a crap how anyone else is doing…I used to play competitive sports and there were plenty of times opponents would use psych tactics to throw you off…it seems this post has been invaded by those who would cast doubt on those with excellent scores…hmmmmm…I wonder

  630. Lee11

    Not that I care about seeing a screen shot but did ghostrider ever show you guys one on that photo thing you were talking about?

  631. ocubermensch

    he didn’t

  632. ocubermensch

    Well, the ROUND 1 Air Map Level 2 with the 3 keys that gives the 610 score, I calculated the minimum pixels:

    Distance is 309 with no initial curve to the left, around 473 with curve to left

    However, I mis calculated the curve needed to get the key on far left, so I suppose you could knock off a couple points, but a straight line using 3 tiles would give min score of about 609, HOWEVER, that’s with not getting the key on the left

    The screenshot I have it now doesn’t allow me to check the pixels, but I am almost 100% sure that min score would be well over 610, I am even suprised 633 is possible but I suppose if you barely touch key on the left

  633. Lee11

    I’m bored – somebody say something.

  634. Lee11

    Oh yeah! I fed some ostriches and emus with my kids today. Isn’t that the most exiting thing ever?!

  635. David

    Do you mean that the ostriches and emus ate your children, or that you and your children fed them something else? Either way sounds exciting, but I’m hoping for the latter.

  636. ocubermensch

    also instead of having tie break round they shoulda made it so top 100 scores qualify for a 3rd round where scores get reset, and you literally only get 1 chance to solve the puzzle (if you exit out you lose your shot) and no fire since thats just purely luck

  637. replay

    @ David
    @ Lee11

    Too funny!! I needed that laugh after trying that Air #2.

    I’m with you about the “almost in”, David. There is **no freakin’ way** that dang ball will go into that hole. Someone, (Kurt?) PLEASE make sure you keep your air vent placements for later and post them ’cause I, for one, would like to see it work or know how you did make it work.

  638. Lee11

    David – That made me laugh my ass off! We actually fed them what looked like rabbit food.

  639. ocubermensch

    also, i’m trying to reproduce ghostrider’s fire score based on the code given…

    even if he started with all 8s? and then somehow moved to 442 for the other 3, no way his score could be 33 and it would require extremely lucky guessing and/or lots of time and considering how long the puzzles have been up, and how he amazingly scored 800 on air for round 2, not to mention sleeping(or maybe he’s a tweaker) is really quite amazing

  640. gamepro

    Ok well I was gonna “practice” but I accidently submited a horrible score for fire, so I figured “what the hell, I may as well finish and get it over with” so here are my stats:

    Round 1: 2437 Note: I only had about 8 hours before the end date on these.

    Round 2: 1148

    Final Total: 3585

    In hindsight, if I would have started the round 1 puzzles before 1 day until they ended my round one score would have been E=80 A=1853 F=78 W=100
    then my final would have been 2111+1148=3259, which of course, still isn’t nearly as low as most of you guys here great job, also my fire score was 122 so even if I could have gotten an 70 (which I had but tried for more, then blew it lol) that would have helped my score by 52 points making it 3207 <———–still nothing to shout about, but a little better at least—-

    Also at least I still have the record for Air Level 1 🙂 😀 lol here is the “proof”

    I really missed the boat on this game

    Have a great time in Rome (whoever wins it)


  641. David

    No score greater than zero on fire is impossible, but the odds against getting a 33 are quite staggering, probably in the ballpark of 80,000 to 1 if the game is played without mistakes. The odds that any one contestant would have the good fortune to hit that is slim, but it’s not too hard to believe. The odds that the one person to hit it would also be the one person that already has the lowest score, by far, is very, very, very small.

    Skill and obsessive persistence on fire could probably get someone a score around 55. Anything below that is either due to incredibly good luck, or a combination of skill, persistence, and very good luck. But there’s nothing short of royal-flush luck that can get a 33.

  642. David


    I’m excited to see your Air1 solve. What’s the password for the photo link?


  643. David

    Other than the scores reported by Jax and Ghost Rider, is 952 the lowest anyone has officially seen for air (round 2)?

  644. Lee11

    Time change sucks!

  645. gamepro

    Sorry about that David, it should be angelsanddemons all lowercase try that and see if it works

    I got a 925 originally for air 2.

    let me know if that doesn’t work for some reason

  646. gamepro

    Sorry David, wrong album here it is


    and the password is: angelsanddemons

  647. gamepro

    BTW David what were your final scores?

  648. David

    389 is spectacular. I was hoping to see a screenshot of how you did it. Could you describe it? I assume it’s just one up, one right, and one left. Any tricks that made it better than the 393 some of us got, or is it just a matter of getting everything right down to the last pixel?

    I haven’t said my scores yet…keeping my cards close to my vest for now. 🙂

  649. David

    …and 925? Some of you air people are just incredible. The scores you find are inspiring. I’ve been proud of configurations I’ve found that look like they’ll be around 965.

  650. Ghost Rider!!!

    just like most of the players here I took the fire levels very seriously and those are the ones I “dedicated my life to” I used pencil and paper and I got very very lucky but here is how it happend play-by-play.

    This is sort of a secret, but here is the “logic” of the game

    about 70% of the combinations have at least 1 set of numbers that are doubles in them.
    88, 66, 33, etc. (not particularly together but somewhere in the solution) So, I first tried that theory, first with eights.


    then I hit submit=16

    It then showed that there were 3 in the correct spot and 3 that was not in the solution (so 3 8’s was in the solution somewhere)

    then I changed the 3rd 8 to a 4 the fourth 8 to another 4 the fifth 8 to a 2 and the sixth 8 to
    another 2 (this was my mistake because I knew there were 3 8’s in the solution!!)

    then I hit submit=30

    8 8 4 4 2 2

    Now it shows 4 in the correct spot! And 2 in the solution but not in order (which means one is an 8 from before and another is a 4 or 2 that is out of place)

    So I changed the first 4 back to 8 the first 2 to a 3 (accidently) then to 4 and BOOM!

    Complete at 33!.

    I don’t really care who believes me or not cause like I said I KNOW I am not the lowest in the U.S. So, I am not packing my suitcase just yet.

    I do have screenshots of round 2 and some nice youtube videos of round 1 which I will show prob on the very last 10 min of the game, after all there are other prizes to be won besides the trip!

    gamepro, that pw does not work to your air 1 score
    but if it shows it I will be eating crow, but i will be dishing some crow out later on in the week as well

  651. Ghost Rider!!!

    389 this is AMAZING!!! I bet that is the game record I am having a large serving of crow right now hahaha excellent job.

  652. David

    @Ghost Rider,

    Any reason not to post a screen-shot of one of your amazing air scores from round 1? I’d love to see where you placed the icons.

    I’ll get the crow out of the fridge so it’s good and ready.

  653. gamepro

    David here is a tip for air 2.

    use the board that the ball starts out at the far left, and then the exit is at the top right of the screen.

    use 4 winds right wind just below and to the right of the start, up wind after the first set of mines, up wind directly above the key, then check it…. it should be somewhere around 820 to 831 if you hit stop just as you think it would exit- but instead it passes it right up.

    Then get left wind, and position it just after the last up wind, and then let it go, and it should go in at about 923 to 935 somewhere around there, just keep tweaking it to get it.
    I do not see how it is possible to get it without that fourth wind I tried over and over with no luck, if someone really has just used 3 tiles on that level, just let us know where to position them.

    ghostrider Thank you it was very trying to get that score, but I just kept at it. Also those are some amazing scores you boast it “LOOKS” like you may be in the lead thus far??

    I had a great time, I just wish I hadn’t messed up with fire, and with all of round 1, but I didn’t have any time, had to take scores WAY below my potential. But I really liked the air puzzles –tho most people hated them– because it was all skill, and I like figuring out angles etc. I hope that the game designers will post the lowest possible scores for each level, and then open them back up so that we can at least have something to try and have more bragging rights:)


  654. David


    Great job all around. And thanks for sharing your round 2 air pointers with all of us. Whoever goes to Rome should definitely send you a St. Peter’s snowglobe.

  655. Ghost Rider

    David the screen shots that I have is like gamepros only when it says you have completed the level and the u-tube vids I have are mainly of water and earth but I do have one with my 392 air 1 score it is the same board that gamepro used i am trying still, to duplicate that 389.

  656. Ghost Rider


    Well Well you are prying for others scores and screenshots but you won’t tell your own or show your own hmmm seems fishy to me. You must have a score below mine but I think I will at least know the winner at least i hope I do!!!!

  657. David

    @Ghost Rider,

    I’m enjoying this exchange and hope you don’t mind the healthy skepticism. This is always half the fun of a puzzle contest.

    Showing a screenshot of 392 will not help to convince anyone, as that’s in the neighborhood of what’s known to be possible.

    Describing how a score of 33 might be achieved will not help to convince anyone, as that kind of reverse engineering is easy to make up. (And why not save yourself 6 points and start with 111111 instead?)

    However, showing a screenshot within 20 points of 610 on air 2 or 710 on air 3 would be enough to silence your doubters. And showing a screenshot from round 1 would not decrease your odds of winning in any way.

    That should be easy, right?

  658. David

    Sure, I make no bones about scouring these forums in hopes of getting a tip that could help my scores. I’m sure lots of people here do.

    It’s posted a long way up, but I did post my strategy for getting a low score in fire. Other than that I honestly don’t have much to offer, since I haven’t gotten any scores that are lower than the lowest others have posted.

    I’m keeping my score to myself in the slim chance that it’s one of the lowest. That way others with similar scores won’t know what they need to aim for in the final days.

  659. Ghost Rider

    David my scores were Air 2 (610) and Air 3 (770) (where did you get those much lower scores from?) are they the scores you are claiming to have gotten?
    also I never said anything about having a screenshot of the air 1 392 I have a u-tube vid of it. And it was the record until gamepros 389 so why not want to show it off? Why is it that you won’t tell your scores? by showing my round 1 scores before the end of the contests or at least close to the end to me seems pointless because round 1 is over and it doesnt matter what a player can do now with round 1 it’s on to round 2 for better or for worse. I say show your scores what have you got to lose DAVID!!!!!!

  660. Ghost Rider

    Air 2 612

  661. David

    My bad on the typo…I intended to write 770 (although I got the 610 right, and that’s the one we’d love to see).

    To answer your fair question “what have you got to lose” by giving my score:

    if I say the exact number, and if there’s a logical low number (give or take 10 points) that we can expect to get in round two, then another competitor would have a specific idea of how much more perfectionism they’d need to apply to round to to match or beat that score. Asking for a ballpark number from round one would be fair though…it was under 2100.

    I’ve answered your question (I hope). Do you have a response to mine, or are you cleverly using a good offense as a way to skirt the issue?

  662. axl d

    @ David
    If you don’t object I’d like to write you a PM or E-Mail or something like that.
    Cannot write you for the next 10 hours though, I’m on a trip to the Netherlands. :).

    @ everyone
    Would be interesting to know how many people didn’t end Round 2 yet.. I couldn’t wait. 🙂

  663. David

    axl d,

    Sure, and the timing might be good. It’s time for me to go to sleep know…I probably won’t be back on this forum until tomorrow evening (I live in California, PCT).

    Have a safe flight,

  664. Kurt

    @ David

    My apologies, I had to sign off last night to save my sanity.

    But to your question (the sub-900 score on Air Puzzle No.2 for Round 2): You are completely correct. I had it set up in a way that looked like it would work perfectly, but last night I decided (after realizing I had no earthly chance of winning this thing) to just submit it and bask in my 15 seconds of glory. However, the ball just glances over the goal and doesn’t go in (despite the fact that it covers nearly 2/3 of the goal in the process.

    So after two hours straight of inching the inching the winds all over the place, I had to give up and sign off. I’m going to keep working at it this week (slowly), but you are completely right, it doesn’t seem to work.

    @ TBC

    I know you’ve tried the same thing and now after having tried to submit it myself, I can definitely understand your frustration.

    @ Ghost Rider

    Awesome job!

    @ Everyone

    I have to say I don’t like the way the forum has changed since last night. One person puts up a score that is QUITE amazing, it happens to be added wrong and a bunch of people start bashing. Whether Ghost Rider is trying to pull our chain as a tactic, really did get a simply amazing score, or whatever, it’s a contest; a game.

    Whether you believe one way or the other, keep trying your best (I know I will) and just have fun. I’ve already lost the contest (that I know), but who cares. I’m having fun trying to figure out the best scores. I’m here to have fun and it’s much better with a fun community to back each other up.

    Let’s keep having fun.


  665. casey

    @ ghostrider

    Congratulations, what amazing scores! What is even more mind boggling is your friend, who you say has 130 points LESS than you do. Is that correct? Would you or your friend be wiling to post these numbers, too? Painful as it is, I would love to see how he/she managed to accomplish this.

    Thanks for sharing with us and congrats again.

  666. assa77


    my total (i’am from Italy)

  667. j15bell

    @axl d

    I haven’t even attempted one of the round 2 puzzles yet.

    I was one of those players that flew into the round 1 Earth puzzles and for some reason (prob impatience and time constraints) didn’t pay attention to the fact that I didn’t HAVE to submit the scores but DID anyway. Really, really bad Earth round 1 scores. Then like GamePro time just got by me and I did the other three puzzles on the morning of the last day. So I have no hope of getting a low score total. My own fault and there is nothing to prove that I COULD have achieved a low score anyway.

    So I am taking my time this round and waited to see what was up, how many different puzzles were available and how exactly I could squeak out a way to practice these even if it was only in my head or on paper.

    So you can count me as one who hasn’t played yet. But no one need worry about what my final score will be. It will be high.

    I have e-mailed the mods here to correct the password for the photobucket. I hope to get back to that as I have had messages that there are still more puzzles I have not found yet. Eventually, if they allow us to have fun with the puzzles when this is done perhaps several players will provide us with some screenshots of their best scores. If they would like me to post them in that photobucket album I will. Just let me know. A kind of “A&D Players Hall of Fame” would be nice.

    Also! I wholeheartedly agree with you David!!! It seems unsportsmanlike to flame another poster for any reason. I have played competitive sports (semi-pro tennis and tri-state volleyball competitions). The loudest complainers were the worst competitors. Wins for those were by pure luck and not skill. And in all the years of playing now that I am approaching 60. Karma is a biatch baby!!! 😉

  668. steve in k.c.

    You can have the answers…but you still gotta take the test.

    Some can’t handle the pressure. So be it.

  669. axl d

    @ David
    “Have a save flight?” 😀 You’re just great! I’m from Germany..
    The Netherlands border is about three miles from my habitation..and I’m already back (way earlier than I thought).

    Uhm.. sorry, but HOW can I contact you (via mail or else)? -.-

    @ Kurt
    Well said indeed. Had a lot of fun with the puzzles and this forum so far. Thx again @ all.

    @ assa77
    Nice score there! I’m curious.. 🙂 did you get a mail with the information how many people from Italy are involved?
    Maybe the “61” for Germany was just some kind of error..

    @ j15bell
    Not even ATTEMPTED? Man..I’d call THAT patience..and I imagined me to be composed.
    Hmm..In fact I believe in the meatime I became addicted to this contest..well, I have to wait now at least till friday..long time. 😉

  670. assa77

    @axl d
    from Italt 180 players 😉

  671. Brenda

    @ assa77

    YOU, my friend, are the luckiest of any of us because you are already in Italy!! I got married in Ravello last May and it was paradise. I love Italy. The only area I haven’t been is the northeast area. My chances of winning this are waning (putting it mildly). I haven’t attempted three of the puzzles yet but I scored 2425 on Round 1 so I don’t think I am a threat to anyone here. I would have to get an amazing low fire score and be a whiz at air- which I am not. I must say, for those who question the 33 someone mentioned on fire, I got a 33 in round one just by lucky guesses. It happens, people do win the lottery once in awhile. I doubt it will happen again… : (

  672. Brenda

    @ assa77

    I left you a post but it disappeared…suffice it to say I think you are the luckiest of all…you are already in Italy!! I got married in Ravello last May. It was amazing.

    I haven’t had a chance to finish round 2. I’m a photographer and I’ve had a busy weekend…I don’t think I’m much of a threat with a 2425 in Round 1…

  673. Brenda

    now it pops up…

  674. Chugiakian

    Sorry Canuckgirl,
    i just got a 62 on round 2 fire
    (like 5 moves or so)


    Canuckgirl, on March 7th, 2009 at 6:47 pm Said:
    Just because I sucked overall in comparison…I want to feel good about something

    Has anyone beat my round two fire score yet of 70?

    I swear I thought I saw a 63 somewhere but not sure. (lie to me…make me feel better …. please…LOL)

  675. assa77

    @ ghostrider


    That was my game, how could I improve?

  676. adynesmom

    Just wondering if these scores are any good for the second round???
    Earth 95
    Air 1563
    Fire 257
    Water 218

  677. Canuckgirl


    My heart was already shattered last night when I saw Ghostriders scores…. wahhhhh!! J/K.
    Kudos to all!!
    I’ve been replaying the round one puzzles again. I wish I had had more time for round one as I only found the contest the day before it was all due. It’s been fun though!!

    To the admins of this site. Thanks for letting us play here and chit chat. Congrats to all on amazing scores! I guess I have to keep saving my airline points to get back to Rome now!!

  678. assa77


    I improved!

  679. gamepro


    to improve your score even more, move your first wind to the right some more and your middle wind barely down a little bit, it should be somewhere around 915 and 922!! Go for the record!!:) Great Job so far.

  680. gamepro


    Way to go with your Round 1 scores. You and Ghost Rider might be going head to head.

    if your total is sub 2000, but I hope it was lower:)

    then plus 38, 921 or better (I know you can do it) 65, and 63<—–is this the lowest water score? Your total would be 3087 that would be awesome!!! GO FOR IT!

    If you don’t mind email me your scores gamepro08@gmail.com I am compiling the lowest scores to see what the lowest possible could be for both rounds.

    Good Luck,


  681. Khali

    My phothosynth does not work properly, I was only able to do the AIR puzzle and was not able to look for the other three remaining. Was very dissapointing, since it was so much fun.

    Now I can’t not play the second level boo, boo!!!

  682. j15bell